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F512M

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by riverflyer, Nov 29, 2003.

  1. riverflyer

    riverflyer F1 Rookie
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    Nov 26, 2003
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    John
    Hello, are there any owners of this model on the board? Anyone know of any for sale? Or have direct experience? thanks much, John
     
  2. Juice It

    Juice It F1 Rookie
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    Sep 22, 2002
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    Click the FerrariAds link above. There is a red one for sale.
     
  3. F1-F512M

    F1-F512M Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
    40
    NH
    I have direct experience and know of one for sale. :) My family has our F512M (#51 out of 75) up for consignment at Scottsdale Ferrari. The car is Red/Tan and has ~10,500 miles. As a testament to the car's quality and condition, it won the Platinum Award at last year's Concorso Arizona in Scottsdale. The vehicle is absolutely stunning and pure ecstasy to drive. The car is in their showroom, but not on their online inventory list so I've attached a picture. If you'd like to see more, I have plenty that I can post. If you're interested, please contact Scottsdale Ferrari (480) 421-3326 for specifics on price, service history, etc.
     
  4. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Owner Lifetime Rossa

    Sep 25, 2002
    10,903
    MO
    There are a few on this site that I am aware of. It is my fav. car so I used to keep track of how many we have/had on the old site. We had I believe 3 owners on the old site, of that I am sure that Mark is still here on this site as well, as i made him a cool avatar. :) He will chime in soon too, his F512M is a beast!
     
  5. F1racer

    F1racer F1 Rookie

    Oct 5, 2003
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  6. CodeRed

    CodeRed Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2003
    341
    LALA LAND
    What do think is a better buy in today's market? A TR512M, TR512, 97 550, 95 355B or used 360 Coupe (6 speed)? I am very intrigued by the TR512M, but what about parts? What about the TR512M on the track vs. the 355 & 360. Is the 512TR almost the same car for $60k less. Is it a reasonable expectation that the TR512M may actually appreciate as the economy recovers, since there were only around 80 or so imported to the US? I can't afford a brand new 360 right now, F40s are out of my price range, but I really like all of the above models. Any ideas?
     
  7. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Owner Lifetime Rossa

    Sep 25, 2002
    10,903
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    75 were brought over, the cars prices are and have remained stagnant, at least asking prices with a few exceptions. It has already prove to be the most stable in terms of value.

    Performance? A very slightly modded 512M will KILL 355s AND 550s in a straight, and offer more rewarding experiances (if you like its feel) overal (twisties etc)

    Just ask Mark.
     
  8. CodeRed

    CodeRed Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2003
    341
    LALA LAND
    It seems like the TR512M is going for around $150K. Is it worth the extra $$$ over the TR512, which seems to be in the sub $100K range? I understand that with the titanium con rods, it has much better throttle response. What are the other major differences? What are the mods? Suspension, ECU and exhaust? Estimated HP w/out compromising the reliability of the engine. How much would you expect to pay in annual maintenace without scrimping? Plus any other valuable info. Your input is appreciated as I am getting somewhat fixated on this model.
     
  9. riverflyer

    riverflyer F1 Rookie
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    Nov 26, 2003
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    CR, good questions, to which I would love to see the answers too. It looks to me like the prices are more in the 100-120 range but still quite a premium over the TR. I love the non pop up lights and although the reviews I read criticized the "overdone" styling, I like the uniqueness of the design. Lets hope an owner surfaces who can answer all these questions!
     
  10. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Owner Lifetime Rossa

    Sep 25, 2002
    10,903
    MO
    Ok you can see the exterior ones, the interior ones really are just the pedals, interior emblems, and different steering wheel. The mechanical are the furthur reduced weight of the car down from the 512TR. The suspension is also different than the TRs.

    The major mods I know of:
    Tubi (Minor HP)
    Cat-by-passes (Minor HP)
    Tubi headers (Minor HP, more so when in conjuction wiht the above, you can get 20-30hp)
    Keonig Racing Chip (MAJOR HP in conjuction with the above esp., as in 500+)

    One might feel the chip hurts the engine, as its now reving to I think 7700 RPMs and the injection is completely remapped, but recall the engine is built to slightly higher tolarances. What I think the chip really is doing is taking advantage of this, one of the last OB1 cars, and completely cirvumventing the emission controlers and such, andf instead of focusing on making power BUT staying emissions friendly...just on making power. Mark would know better, but this is what I think.

    Reliablity? The 512TR series are supposedly much more reliable then the old TR series, since it has been a few years and Ferrari fig out its mistakes slow and steadly, as a result the same can be said about a 512M over a TR, though to a lesser degree, siince many of the issue were corrected with the TR->512TR switch.

    Maintance without scrimping I would say 1000-1500 for fluid changes and inspection. NOTE that the major every 4-5 years or 30,000 miles is CRITICAL on ALL TRs INCLUDING 512Ms! This will cost 'big $,' but considering the car costs 145-155k, it kinda makes sense. (I estimate the 7-8k range depending on if anything broke and if you completed the minor service on time. (Every 3 years or 15,000 miles)

    Why do I know this? Its my favorite car of all time and I looked to buying one last spring, but couldn't justifiy it to the family. Mark (enzomoon) is a great help and I learned much from him about the car, as well as over time researching it.
     
  11. CodeRed

    CodeRed Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2003
    341
    LALA LAND

    Where are you seeing aTR512M in the $100-120K range? the few that I noticed were all north of $150K. If they ARE that much lower, my goal simply becomes that much closer!
     
  12. CodeRed

    CodeRed Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2003
    341
    LALA LAND
    Just out of curiosity, why are you parting with such a stunning car? Do you know the price? More pics would be great.
     
  13. F1-F512M

    F1-F512M Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
    40
    NH
    The F512M's are running in the $140k-160k range, down slightly from a year or two ago. The cheapest I've ever seen was the yellow 512M listed a couple months ago for $129k, however people mentioned that the car had issues.
    The F512M hard cover book by Automobilia is an invaluable resource on the entire TR, 512TR, and F512M lineage.

    This site gives a good technical & performace comparison between the TR, 512TR, and the 512M. http://www.geocities.com/hartwj/performance.htm

    Here's some general info that I've pasted on the upgrades to the F512M from the Ferrari North America site & http://www.fast-autos.net/ferrari/ferrari512m.html

    When Ferrari set about creating a replacement for the Berlinetta Boxer, a V12 engine, high performance, style and exemplary design were assumed. Ferrari dictated that luxury and practicality befitting the world's premier production sports car were also to be encompassed. Even as the Testarossa exerted a pull on the hearts and minds of car lovers, not to mention designers, Ferrari did not sit on their laurels. 1984's Testarossa evolved into the 512TR of 1991 and the F512M of 1995. With each evolution the styling, interior, and drivetrain were enhanced in a car that was always capable of speeds exceeding 180 mph, accelerated to 60 mph in under 5 seconds, and attained 0.9G lateral acceleration.

    Design

    In 1995 the 512 TR became the F512M. Aerodynamics again drove styling changes including a new integrated nose cap with trapezoidal indicator and parking lights above separate round fog lights. Fixed homofocal headlights were mounted behind lexan. The car's undertray was again redesigned for improved airflow, and round Ferrari tail lights replaced the original square units.

    Drivetrain

    The F512M's engine was even lighter than the 512 TR's, with most reduction coming internally through forged aluminum pistons, titanium connecting rods, and a revised crankshaft. The combustion chambers were reshaped, and the exhaust system was redesigned. The F512M offers 432bhp at 6750rpm and 367lbs-ft at 5500rpm. The F512M transmission had revised synchronizers. The shifter mechanism was also modified to improve speed, ease, and precision of shifts.

    Interior

    The interior of the F512M did not change radically from that of the 512 TR, although optional racing seats seats were offered. A small storage bin was added ahead of the console, and the console itself was more fully covered in leather. Aluminum replaced plastic for the spherical knob atop the gear shifter. A new three spoke Momo steering wheel was introduced, its rim a little thicker, and the inner rim between around the upper spokes made of carbon fiber rather than leather. The driver's pedals were replaced by adjustable ones of drilled aluminum.
     
  14. F1-F512M

    F1-F512M Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
    40
    NH
    Unfortunately, a death in the family has prompted us to sell some of our treasured assets (car, boat, etc). The car is fairly priced based on current market conditions--please contact the dealer for exact figures.
     
  15. F1-F512M

    F1-F512M Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
    40
    NH
    F512M-rear
     
  16. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
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    Check my profile to see what happens to a 512TR when a track fanatic gets their hands on 1 :)

    The 512M has the Titanium connecting rods, a stronger gearbox & I think the valves may also be titanium, possibly new camshafts, has maybe 50 more hp & weighs a bit less than the 512TR, under 100 # less I believe

    As for upgrades apart from those mentioned, if you plan on going to the track I HIGHLY suggest you upgrade the bakes to Brembo F50s like I have on both my 512TRs
     
  17. CodeRed

    CodeRed Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2003
    341
    LALA LAND
    According the web site thatwas just posted

    http://www.geocities.com/hartwj/performance.htm

    The TR512 has 421 HP & 360 lb ft.

    The TR512M has 432 HP & 367 lb ft.

    That doesn't add up to anything close to a 50 HP difference. Is the number you are qouting after mods? Couldn't the same mods be made to either car, granted with small differences again in output?

    That is a simply beautiful example in Arizona, by the way.
     
  18. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
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    Ive had both my 512TRs dynoed. The road car was making 460 hp on a shock dyno, cabt remember the torque, this is with no cats, Tubi, & a heat reflective wrapping on the intake snorkels & heat reflective paint on the air filter boxes

    The race 512TR makes 470 hp at the flyweel, no mufflers :) or cats. Just added a Motech ignition system. Eventually I think the flat 12 can make 600 hp with good reliability & no turbos
     
  19. CodeRed

    CodeRed Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2003
    341
    LALA LAND

    I cant find the book that you referenced (on Amazon). Where can I buy it?
    Thanks CR
     
  20. riverflyer

    riverflyer F1 Rookie
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    Nov 26, 2003
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    F1. Very sorry to hear about the passing. Hope the car finds a fitting home, she is a beaut!
     
  21. enzomoon

    enzomoon Guest


    Hi Guys,


    My 2 cts are as follows:


    The M has several mods versus the 512TR which make it unique......
    First, while the absolute HP number is not that much higher as quoted I believe that #1 it is conservative and #2 the engine revs a lot faster than the 512TR due to less reciprocating mass and thus builds power more quickly.
    The suspension modifications include new stiffer springs, different shocks which make the car more nimble but also a bit more tricky at the limit from what I can tell. The whole car just feels lighter(which it is by about 50-100 lbs depending upon what you read) and more connected to the road than my 512TR did.
    The brakes are ABS which came into the 1994 MY but which was not available prior to that if memory serves.
    The engine has several mods which result in the noticeable difference as I mentioned.....#1) Titanium conrods #2) New pistons with higher compression ratio of 11.4:1 versus 11:1. #3)Main crankshaft weighs 14lbs less which is HUGE in terms of mass#4) driveshaft strengthened and lightened versus 512TR.
    Interior changes are subtle unless you find one with the carbon fiber seats which are few and far between. Otherwise, a bit more leather inside, unique steering wheel to the M, 512M insignia on passenger side dash, commemorative plaque with # of car out of 75.
    The front bonnet is Fiberglass versus aluminum for the 512TR. The NACA ducts and the lights on the M really give the car a much more aggressive look ( ala F40) IMO. The rear is different as well as you know.The overall level of workmanship on the car is also just slightly better than the 512TR. I spent this weekend with a friend who owns a 512TR and does Detail work on Ferraris. He always comments on how my car's paint job is of higher quality than any other Ferrari he has worked on. The car seems to have just gotten that extra bit of attention given its limited production.
    I have several mods including Bypass pipes, Tubi, K&NS, and most importantly the Koenig Racing chip. I still need to dyno it but best guess is 500hp. at this point. I did speak with someone at Norwood Performance recently about putting racing Cams in the car. They seemed to indicate a possible HP number with proper re-mapping of the ECU, cams adjustments etc. of about 575-600HP with a theoretical rev limit of 9,000 RPM. My Koenig limiter kicks in at about 7,800 now and stock ECU seems to limit revs to about 7,100...BIG difference at the Top end on the Koenig. The car was basically de-tuned for the street(remember this is truly the direct descendent of their famous 312 F1 race engine) so there is a fair bit of performance to extract versus stock.
    Well, hope this is somewhat insightful and helps!

    Regards,

    Mark
     
  22. F40

    F40 F1 Rookie

    Apr 16, 2003
    3,227
    #22 F40, Dec 1, 2003
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Heres the one that is for sale at Scottsdale Ferrari at this years Concorso Arizona. Heres a pic for the family member on here. Beautiful car!
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  23. riverflyer

    riverflyer F1 Rookie
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    Nov 26, 2003
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    Mark, thanks very much for the thoughtful and well presented reply. Makes me want one even more. What a gorgeous car! Where do you live btw? I would love to see one in person, hear the exhaust note, sit in it and maybe even go for a ride. Anyone have one in N. Cali? Drop me a pm if so, or email. thanks again all who responded. John
     
  24. 308nut

    308nut Formula 3
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    Jul 22, 2002
    1,874
    NOLA/Covington
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    Wade
    I have a 512M for sale also and I can attest that it is just a incredible car, and fast as hell. You can check mine out at

    www.fortunemotors.com



    Wade
     
  25. Mule

    Mule F1 Rookie
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    Jun 25, 2003
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    Mule
    Since your profile says Northern California, there may still be the one at F of San Fran.
     

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