F80 Reportedly Having Issues Selling

Not surprised at all. Come on, $4M for a 6 cylinder, 900 unit limited, hybrid Ferrari. People aren't stupid.

 

Click Bait...

I'll save you the time:

Update:

Ferrari has clarified that all 799 units of the F80 have already been allocated and that the recent reports are untrue.

With that said, we would like to give you a background on how this story developed over the last couple of days. It all began with an Instagram post, which claimed that the F80 production was not sold out. We reached out to our contacts to confirm this. Unfortunately, it appears that we were totally misled by multiple sources.


If Lusso GTC4-T can sell out, what makes anyone think F80's wouldn't have a line out the door?
6cyl or not...
LOL

S

 

Oh, so there’s a halo car above the F80 to force clients into buying the F80 for an allocation on the higher car is there?

 

:rolleyes

I think you are making my point for me, but no, there's not, at this time.
nor have I seen anyone being forced to buy an F80 either.. ;-)

S

 

Interesting. So you believe if you’re offered an F80 slot (but don’t want it) you have to buy it (forced) or face no future allocations?

Besides, Ferrari would never misreport sales or production would they…

 

Ummm. One is couple of hundred thousand and on is $4M+.

 

So, to be clear, we are discussing the point that Ferrari has allocated all of the current F80 slots .??.
and that the initial article was an example of click bait 101 ?

JAM1 I personally feel that there were so few allocations to go around, that from the very beginning , there were top clients that were unable to secure an allocation, that they would have eagerly accepted had one been made available to them. So, had top client A declined , top client B would have stepped right in with no negative consequences to top client A in this scenario.

ag512bbi Yes, obviously they are wildly different price points, but the example stands.

S

 

A few things to unpack here:

1. Just because the slots are "allocated" does not mean they are sold. You can "allocate" the whole line up but all that means is that they are holding a slot to offer it to someone...doesn't mean they've gotten money for it yet. And as with all of these top-end cars, some people are getting multiple allocations.

2. The F80 is having problems because a lot of the top customers are having issues with Ferrari tightening it's stranglehold grip on their VIP program. Rewind the clock 20 years ago and you just needed a few cars and potentially some interestingly rare cars to qualify. Then it became you had to order all the newest models in 2 of the ranges. Then you had to go option crazy on your cars you ordered... and start getting 3 cars in the model ranges...and had to order any special version of car in any range with a lot of options if offered to you... and start going to a bunch of events... to now it's you had to buy an SP1 or SP2 (but you needed at least 3 of big 5 - 288 GTO, F40, F50, Enzo, LaFerrari - but all 5 was much preferred) in order to be offered an SP3, which gives you a better chance at getting an F80. It's more so the hoops you have to jump through to stay in the hostage situation just to get the chance at a car. And the kicker is because Ferrari commands you can't sell the car for a certain period of time, it is keeping the values on the secondary market high, so for example if you didn't want to jump through the hoops to get a LaFerrari when new for $1.7M MSRP, then good luck paying under $2.5M on the second hand market. As long as people keep playing along, Ferrari will continue to do this but a lot of people are getting tired of shelling out massive $ all over the place just for the chance to get something special at msrp.

3. A work around some people have has been equity pools, where say if person A is offered an F80 but they hate it yet still wanna be in Ferrari's good grace's, they tell Person B & C who aren't Ferrari VIP's yet about the car and then they give Person A the cash for it, Person A spec's it to their liking and then after the 6 month hold mandated by Ferrari is over gives it to Person B & C. This way the relationship is with Ferrari is maintained and Person A doesn't have to pay for something they don't want and Person B & C get their car at msrp, they just have to wait a bit to put it in their name and now they are closer to getting the status themselves.

4. With all of those market conditions in mind, the F80 having highly controversial styling, a hybrid V6, a $4M price tag and 800 units (which for this type of car is not exclusive enough to justify the price to most people) this is the first time in a while people have said "Hold on a minute...what are we doing here?" Especially in the wake of the SP3 which has an NA V12 (their iconic engine), very well received looks, and limited to 500 units (actually exclusive) for half the price. If we never got the SP3 then things would be a bit different or if the SP3 had come out as the F80 and then they shelved the actual F80 as the F90 it may be different, but alas, here we are. So the car itself certainly isn't helping it's cause.

5. TL;DR: Basically people are more pissed and outspoken about how Ferrari is acting as a company vs issues with the car itself, but the car is definitely not helping it's own case. The last time customers got this vocal about the way the company operated was with the F50, as Ferrari initially only offered a 2 year lease and would blacklist you if they caught a whiff of a journalist testing the car, which is why the F50 got a lot of undeserved hate back in the day and which is partially why it's finally been getting the love it deserves now (beside the fact it's the only midengined, NA V12 with a manual, convertible roof and is the rarest at 349 units).

 

I don’t understand why the SP3 isn’t the flagship model. It ticks all the boxes. The F80, not so much.

 

Seems that you don't understand how this works. The halo model is the most technologically advanced and the quickest of them all; the one that sets the template for the models to come for the next decade, or so. The SP3 is just a much slower and technologically simpler LaFerrari, a 11 year old halo car itself.

 

I wish to point out a few things in your unpacking:

They have gotten [some] money as of this writing.

That's not the case.

The Right-of-First-Refusal period is a lot longer for the "halo" models.

The SP3 is not a halo car: it's a homage car. Keep in mind the SP3 is heavier than the LaFerrari Aperta it's based on, even with the hybrid stuff removed.

The base price (close to $4M in the US) is a shocker, I'll give you that.

 

It does but Ferrari has found a new revenue stream by branching off the halo line with the Icona Series. One could argue it's more for the purists...or that's it's just another major cash grab. To each their own on the explanation. But as it's been pointed out the Halo car is always the most technologically advanced / closest to their formula 1 tech so sadly the V6 hybrid is in line with it. But the styling there's no excuse for IMHO.

1. Never said they haven't gotten any cash...just pointing out that there's some shenanigan's going on. I've been at launch events in the past when they announced the car is "sold out" only to later be approached by the head of sales saying "If you'd like one we can take a deposit." ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

2. Agree to disagree. I know someone with two allocations. Italian math is always a funny thing LOL.

3. Right of first refusal period is long, I agree. I was outlining that after delivery is taken there's a "do not sell" period that while not legally enforceable (usually) it is a fast way to lose VIP status as Ferrari heavily frowns upon it. But having an allocation and being able to say No, usually you have a good 12-18 month window (or a 4 year window for the AMG One and Valkyrie).

4. Correct, the SP3 isn't a halo car...more like "halo adjacent" LOL. The point I was going after was that the SP3 has the credentials of a halo car and was well received, so in the wake of that it stole a bit of the F80's shine. It's like the opening act of a concert being way better than the headliner of the concert LOL. It would be interesting to see how the F80 reception would have been if the SP3 (or the SP1 and 2 for that matter) never came out since all the other Halo cars had nothing comparable in between their releases until after the LaFerrari.

5. Right? Crazy how expensive cars have become, even when adjusted for inflation. But hey if the market is there more power to them.

 

It certainly does not! It is slower than the slower rear-mid engined, normal production Ferrari (the 296). The Sp3 is just a romantic homage to the past.

 

Did you get offered an SP3?

 

In my dreams. It's the only Ferrari newer than 20 years old that I like. And by like, I mean it's the most beautiful car I've ever seen!

 

I hate to say it, but it's almost becoming embarrassing to be associated with Ferrari and some of these other brands.

 

why?

 

Honestly, I suspect Ferrari is embarrassed to be associated with me. "Please take off the SF cap, you only have a 328 for god's sake!"

 

Ferrari and the people who buy them are a much different company and demographic of people than when I got into the brand. They have become more of a fashion accessory than anything else. When the company went public, I knew it was going to be the end Ferrari as we once knew it. Anything past the 458 is not allowed in my shop.

 

Your answer is quaiet interesting so I have two question to clarifice.
What do you mean by demograpic change? Today when all Ferraris have automatic gearbox it's much more easy to drive especially for people from north America where three pedals where not very common. also modern Ferrari are much more comfotable witch make them more accepable for some people. today you have many ways to finance a car
what would be good direction after 458?

 

Could it be because you are not qualified to work on newer cars? Have you taken the training courses for these cars?

 

Generalizations are never a good thing. Some of us have been with the brand for more than 30 years, still like the cars and don't view them as fashion accessories. A production Ferrari today is an infinitely better product from a quality perspective than anything produced in the Enzo era and I am speaking from experience having owned and restored various cars from 1960 onwards. Most of the product choices they have made (V6 engines, turbos, hybrid tech) are not dictated by them, they are dictated by emissions regulations and the approach of most countries to cars.

The client base today is bigger, because Ferrari had to grow in order to survive. When you make a brand bigger you will attract people who view the product as a fashion accessory, you will attract speculators and you will attract people you wouldn't want to take a photograph with. The question is whether the new client base redefines the brand and I think Ferrari have avoided this so far. You just have to look at what happened to brands like Jaguar and Lotus, to see what Ferrari's future could have looked like. Or the survival troubles of Aston Martin which is owned today by Mercedes and uses their engines and electronics in their cars. Or Bentley and Rolls Royce...Or even the great Porsche who've gone from being racing legends to producing tens of thousands of SUVs, an electric sports sedan that depreciates at the speed of light and cancelling their hypercar because it was electric and no one would buy it. Of course Ferrari could have gone the Pagani/GMA way, evolve its V12, produce 100 cars a year, charge 3 million per car. Survival would be questionable and today we'd be saying they have become elitist as "there was a time regular people could buy their cars and now they only sell to billionaires"...the choices were not great as you can see

The world is very different from 20 years ago and Ferrari had to adapt. So far they have done a good job in my view and in the process created probably the most valuable brand in the world, continuing to have racing success. Is it possible they will take the evolution a step too far? Yes. The pricing bet on the F80 is risky. The growth in production numbers is also risky if they cant maintain build quality and second hand prices go the Porsche way...The electric car will be even riskier. Let's see...

 

What you say is very relevant, as always, but I would just like to raise a few points. There was room for another product plan, for another business strategy.
I will argue. At first, the net margin per car is far too high and it is to the detriment of the quality and materials.
Wanting to maximize economies of scale on cars sold today at a very high price is a mistake. No one wants to see low-cost components of questionable quality in cars costing 600 k€
Secondly, there was room for hybrids+NA, with more effort on size and weight, without turbo, less power but with other arguments. it would have been wise to build a new V12, but when you don t want to be the one to produce a V12 in 2025 (and with the success of the PS and the 12C must think it s was wrong... It was predictable when you have the culture of the brand). But Ferrari is not Apple... !!!
Finally, it was possible to comply with the regulations to protect its two flagship segments (12C and 296) from applying to leave NA, even if it meant that the rest of the range recovered the CO2 figures with hybridization and EV...
And ..., there is room for another design. Manzoni is a man of taste, intelligent and talented, but he still hasn't solved a basic question "what a Ferrari should be", and gets lost between avant-gardism and innovation disconnected from the history of the brand.