F80 Reportedly Having Issues Selling

Obviously I understand the counterarguments and that is why there are different cars for different tastes. You like the GMA T50, I like the Aston Martin Valkyrie; can't afford either, but that is besides the point. I am just advocating for the technological corner, feel free to do so for the opposite corner. I have no problem with people liking something different than what I like. I have a problem with people who are denigrating others as "not real car people" because they are past manual, for example. I am not saying you, or anyone else here, did that; it was just an example.

PS: You give me too much credit, calling me smart.

 

For road cars I personally still subscribe to the "it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow". For me, modern cars just offer so much grip (tyres, suspension developments etc) and aided by so much electronics...on the road, there is just too much control.

 

Well, the MX5 is always available.

 

Too far in the opposite direction

 

I think being an absolutist almost always ends up in an absurd place, but, your points are well made. I would say with modern cars you need a certain amount of helpers to make sure you dont end up in the hedges. One such helper- brake force apportionment. This happens in the background and helps most of us out. You are right that something is lost; but the question I would ask is whether something else is gained. The answer will be different for each of us.

 

Best racecar I own is the MX5 global with sequential transmission, laugh out loud fun to drive and race and minimal running costs!

 

Completely agree. There is no "right" answer here, at least not where we are along the spectrum between two absolutist extremes. I meant only to critique the viewpoint that performance is all that matters.

As you say, electronics play different roles. Some, like brake-by-wire, are intended to merely transmit the driver's inputs. If done well, it will be completely transparent to the driver, so there's nothing lost. And in my experience Ferrari nails these things.

Then there's a category of things like side slip control. Ferrari is arguably the very best at making these systems feel natural. We'll all have different opinions on the degree to which they add or detract from the experience, but if they're defeatable, they are unequivocally good; everyone wins.

Hybrids are interesting. Depending on my mood, I think they're awesome or I lament that they smooth through some of the quirkiness that makes ICEs fun and challenging. I think the right answer is: make both! Precisely what Ferrari does, and I suspect that's what they will do for as long as the regulations allow.

I do worry about the trajectory we're on (more about the industry than Ferrari specifically), and I wish Ferrari offered a few models more in the GMA mould. But - other than manual transmissions - I think we give up very little in today's Ferraris, and we get an awful lot in return.

 

Hehe - somehow I doubt that.

 

was created to provide Automated Emergency Braking (and for BEVs)

 

Not a feature that interests me. But I would imagine brake-by-wire is essential for any hybrid with regenerative braking (not just pure BEVs) to make the pedal response predictable.

I don't love the idea of brake-by-wire since it separates me from the machine. But if the pedal and pedal reponse is indistinguishable from traditional setups, I don't have any reason to complain. And, let's face it, the pedal feel from vacuum assisted brakes isn't great. If they can better imitate the feel of unassisted brakes with brake-by-wire systems, I will probably end up preferring them!

 

Regarding brake-by-wire, I am reading that it allows the brake pedal to feel totally consistent, irrespective of brake fluid and disks temperature. So, it basically always maintains the same feeling, which on the face of it is great. What leaves me a bit perplexed is how the driver would know that the brakes are getting too hot, if the pedal has the same feeling. I guess there will be a warning in the dash in such an eventuality.

PS: I never liked unassisted brakes. The Elise was a prime example of that. Mediocre brakes, to say the least.

 

Yes, but it's more funner to drive a fast car, fast.

 

A race driver friend of mine and serious collector told me that he considers anything from the 365 and forward as "modern cars." He told me his limit is the 355 and the F50. With anything in the 21st century, he doesn't like anything other than the TdF and the LaF with systems turned all the way down to ESC. Then he's "okay with them," as they feel similar to F cars from the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

Well the easy notice is that they are V12s. But he said that driving the TdF feels raw, like those 50s and 60s Ferrari's he collects and loves to road drive. About the LaFerrari, he said there was a race car-like urgency in the power delivery that felt like the cars from the 50s and 60s. As well, this matched up with the power delivery shape in his racing. He said other than that no other Ferrari's in the 2001-2020 timeframe were exciting for him to drive.

 

We jump back to the end of 1992 and F40 #93796 was sitting at a Ferrari dealership here in Modena, Italy (!!): there were no customers for that car. Then the dealership sale manager called at home some customers and finally called a friend of mine, who had asked to buy such a car four years before, in 1988: "Sir, do you still want an F40? We have one here, if you still want it..."

That's the story.

Ciao

 

another small victory