Fabspeed parts made in Taiwan?

I looked at my still uninstalled Fabspeed box sitting in my garage, with the "Made in USA" sticker on it and I think I understand now... It's the BOX that was made in the USA!


Really, who cares where they were made if the value is there and they work as advertised?

 

I imagine they do or they wouldn't put the label on

 

Well...
I guess this is where the 'Agency Power' headers make a compelling option at $1000 less for the same product - expensive those US made boxes!

 

It's not the boxes, it's the Made in USA labels that run the cost up!

 

That's exactly right.

 

Are Fabspeed headers really exactly the same as Agency Power?
What about IPE headers?

 

If not very likely no better or worse.

 

Per the web sites, the price delta is $495.

Not the same - check out
~ AP's socket weld vs butt welds on the FS collector
~ AP's miter (NASTY) immediately after the collector vs the FS mandrel bend
~ AP's socket weld pipes as they meet the collector - notice the differing points of attachment - sonic resonance must be adversly affected in this easier to build design
AP's approaches indicate cost cutting measures rather than performace or quality.

If we had them in hand and side-by-side, we'd likely find more surprises. Like for example, is there a cone inside the AP collector(?) based on the pics - I'd be surprised.

BTW - ever see the charts on 'foreign content' for our US cars? See this:
Patriotic? Here?s how to buy American - Business - Autos - ForbesAutos.com | NBC News

"For instance, the Chevrolet Equinox, which is assembled in Ontario, has an engine made in China and a transmission from Japan, which brings its domestic content down to 55 percent. The Chrysler PT Cruiser is assembled in Mexico, has a Mexican-made engine and only 37 percent domestic content.

Yet the Japanese-branded Toyota Sienna minivan, with a West Virginia-built engine and transmission, and a final assembly in Indiana, boasts 85 percent domestic content."

Fabspeed has bent over backwards for folks on this forum - I say giv'em a break.

PS: I have no affilition - at this point, just an observer

Rgds,
Vincenzo
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To your point, "American" car manufacturers can't label their cars made in America unless they are. Part origin percentage and place of assembly are clearly disclosed on the window sticker. Fabspeed is an American auto tuner, but whether the parts themselves are Made in the USA is a point of debate they have squarely placed in the crosshairs by their advertising and labeling practices.

Personally, if I were them I would just lose the Made in USA label and let the quality of their product speak for itself.

That's just my worthless .02

 

Vincenzo
May I ask if you have done side by side comparison? Everything I read states both are built by JIM in Taiwan. Which I do not have a problem with. As to welds, it is my understanding a butt weld is just that. Welding two pieces butted together. And socket welding is a weld around a piece that is smaller in diameter than the host to which it is inserted. So I don't understand the reason to make claim to one being better than the other. It appears the Fabspeed headers in the their video have the pipe inserted in the flange socket using welds at the engine flange port to pipe. From the website pictures on both manufactures sites, they look identical less the fabspeed tag by the O2 bung hole.

 

The FabSpeed snakes really are a work of art regardless of where they are made.

Their before sales support is great. The product comes well packaged and the installer reported no problems. I can't comment on any after support issues because I have not had any need for support.

I love the sound, my wife likes the sound and everyone comments how much they like the sound.

 

only by way of the photos from their web pages...

I claim that the socket weld process is 'cheaper' and only marginally 'worse' at the collector side of the pipe runs. The sw process allows the welder to accommodate a wider range of variability in length of components. The process allows for an easier, faster fillet weld. If the pipe alignment is 1/4" short... no problem, blow and go. A butt weld requires tighter tolerances on pre-fab’d components to get it right.

Key points:
FS requires tighter quality control and tolerances within their product line to achieve sucess.
AP has chosen the path which allows for less QC and greater tolerances

Conclusion:
FS is focused on quality rather than cutting corners

On the flange (head) side, typical construction techniques make the need for a socket weld a necessity.

Summary:
In my opinion, if done correctly, either is 'acceptable'. However, (disregarding cost) the preferred method is the butt weld. One uniform pipe down the entire length to maximize, rather than damp the sonic effects.

Rgds,
Vince

 

Well put and agreed...

Rgds,
Vincenzo

 

The enclosed pics are directly off of the FS and AP websites as of today. The mentioned differences are clearly shown in the pics.

Rgds,
Vincenzo

 

Here are some pics of my F430 Fabspeed headers, before and after ceramic coat:
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Looking at this latest set of pictures offered. It appears the down tubes are inside the collector about a 1/2 inch or so, making this a socket weld.

 

My wife and I agree with you 100%. Best mod I could have done (headers and cat back). Evan was great to deal with.
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I build one off headers at the shop for engine swaps and hot rods fairly frequently. Butt welding is far more difficult than socket welding, as mentioned above, socket welding allows for variable lengths on the tubes, it is far easier to do this way. Butt welding tubes is much more difficult and even on a jig with preset cuts still requires a lot of trimming and shaving to get a tight fit. The biggest problem with socket welds is that many times the builder/welder does not do the slip joint in interest of the exhaust flow meaning the smaller pipe, or non expanded, is facing the exhaust flow. This creates a lip internally and causes turbulence in the flow. The AP headers have this after the collector, arguably the most critical area, the Fabspeeds are all butt welded keeping a nice consistent flow internally.

 

The AP and Fabspeed headers are the same, made in the same factory (JIM in Tawain). Here's a pic of an AP header:

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And here's the pic of the Fabspeed headers posted earlier:

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They are identical, even down to the rail that holds the flanges together.

 

+1

Another pic straight off the current AP web site.
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It's very interesting but neither of your pictures seems to represent the current headers from Fabspeed or AP.
I wonder if the Fabspeed image (which looks very good) is a pre-production header that was then used as the basis for the final product and similarly the AP image is another early pre-production model.
Your Fabspeed image looks to have lovely butt welds and the AP has large socket welds - the latest images of both (posted by Voicey) to my untrained eye both appear to have small socket welds?
The products are identical.

 

Here are the two web sites that supplied the pics in my post:

Ferrari 360 Sport Headers - Fabspeed Motorsport

Agency Power

If these vendors are shipping something different from their depictions - shame on them....

The more I look at the AP collector, the more nasty it becomes...

Rgds,
Vincenzo
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Good points...

Also - when the slip joint is formed into the female pipe, the wall is thinned down in order to allow the metal to expand into a larger diameter. Then moisture can weep into the gap and potentially corrode the thinner wall pipe.

Yes, of course this is mitigated via a hot collector and SS, but it is still an issue to consider.

Speaking of hot collectors, when it gets 'too' hot, the thinner pipe will be the first place to deform.

Rgds,
Vincenzo

 

You have posted 360 headers and I posted F430 headers. I can't say for the 360 as I've never handled them, but the F430 headers are identical.

However, a brief look at your links suggests the 360 ones are the same but it's hard to tell for sure from the pictures. The brackets between the flanges look the same.

 

It is my understanding that AP fabricates their headers for the 360 in house, so there may be a difference between their's and FS's.

The 430 headers from AP are imported...they do readily offer this info and they seem to be identical to the FS headers for the 430.

I have a set of 430 AP headers on order (the price difference was too great to ignore) and I will happily post some photos, both external and internal when I receive them.