Fabspeed parts made in Taiwan?

I assume Fabspeed will be making a statement tomorrow when Jeff gets back to work and then we will know.

 

This is straight from the U.S. Government about Complying with the Made in USA Standard:

Link to their website:
http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus03-complying-made-usa-standard

Link to the info in a PDF:
http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus03-complying-made-usa-standard.pdf

EDIT: Man, this thread flies, I just saw Dave posted this above. Sorry about that

 

Let Stef know BOSH is probably the worst in the world for that one.

 

just became other companies are doing it, does it make okay?

I don't see other companies making a post of in-house product a few post down which is a complete lie in a "small" community which they are apart of.

I hope a few has taken advantage of the FTC compliant form on the website.

 

If this is all true which appears to be, then Fabspeed is committing fraud. They clearly imply that they mnfr their products in the US. they reference a 200k sqft mnfr facility. Really? 200k sqft where in the US? That would be a huge plant, I doubt they move enough product to justify the cost + the new 30k sqft space Jeff mentions.

Some questions; if you like the product why not order direct and skip Fabspeed or Agency?

What happens now? Do they get reported to the FTC? Do they/will they come clean?

 

I don't see anywhere on their website where they make the claim "made in USA"

As I have not ever ordered their product, I don't know if their packaging states it either.

So, if it's not in their website or their advertising, then the only issue the FTC would have is with statements made in response to questions here and elsewhere.

Doubt they'd get all worked up over that, although Chinese steel (not Taiwanese steel) is currently the subject of an unfair pricing tariff, I think.

D

 

They imply that they mnfr in-house in their facilities which are located in the US. Per the FTC's website you cannot imply you mnfr in the US if you don't.

"Fabspeed Motorsports has over 16,000 sq ft of fabrication, sales and warehouse space in our Philadelphia location and additionally over 200,000 sq ft of dedicated manufacturing space in the USA."

Seems clear what they are implying to me.

 

Go to the FAQ's on their site then read #3.

3. What makes Fabspeed products better than the other performance part makers on the market?

Answer> The number one reason is quality; we use the highest quality materials so we stand behind all of our products with a lifetime guarantee. Secondly we design, develop, thoroughly test ( street, racetrack and Dyno test) all of our products in house. Our goal is to make improvements over stock in real world numbers HP/ Torque. Third we make our parts to work in conjunction with all factory parts, what this means to you is that you will have the ability to make these upgrades one piece at a time if you choose, and will not run into problems with installation or setting off any warning lights. Our systems are a la carte so you can install a complete super high performance replacement package for your car and or just change a simple rear muffler.

http://www.fabspeed.com/FAQ.html

Where is Fabspeed located? In the USA, they do leave out the word manufacture though, they just say design, develop and thoroughly test all our products in house. I could have swore it said manufacture the other day.

 

Wait a second, If the source of the product or quality is not in question, than what is the problem?

Put aside the US made claim, Do you really use that as your reason to buy Fabspeed headers?

No you do not.

Your reason is a simple one and one we all make. they are at a very good price and they are a high quality. everyone on here says so. And I have not heard one complaint until now. And it is a USA company who is backing it 100%. Again...A USA COMPANY. I can get them on a phone without international charges or a translator.

Is it really a high markup? really? He is offering a LIFETIME WARRANTY. That is a really really long time for a ferrari. I don`t remember anyone complaining about the price before this.

I did not see a return policy or warranty claim policy listed on those invoices that were posted. I must have missed that. I also did not see an invoice from a Taiwan manufacturer made out to fabspeed. So I cannot comment on the usa thing.

Nouvalari Makes a nice exhaust system as well, it is priced very well, Lifetime warranty and the quality while not exceptional is very good. They are made in the UK as far as I know but to me that really is not the issue, the issue is can I pick up the phone if I have a problem and get satisfaction, and with both Fabspeed and Nouvalari that service is absolutly Exceptional.

Look, I do not really know to what extent the Fabspeed headers are US built and that is for Fabspeed to answer and not my concern. All I know is to date I am very satisfied with their products.

Regards, Jim

 

Nope.

Implications are not statements of fact, or fiction.

Unless they state "Made in USA" somewhere on the site or packaging, I don't think there's an issue.

D

 

I don't know enough to claim quality is there or not but I do agree with your point. However they should be clear on their role for mnfr and dev. If they were this wouldn't be an issue.

Funny you mention Nouvalari, compare their welds to Fabspeed -night and day. Nouvalari blows them away, at least visually.

 

That's probably because everyone thought the product was made in the USA so pricing was inline.

Would you really put a $800 header that's designed & fabricated anywhere in the world on your Ferrari? As for the lifetime warranty.... unless it's a lifetime warranty that will cover the cost of removal & installation it's not worth much when you are marking up a product 4+ times.

Everyone is in the business to make money so mark-up all you want but let's be honest where the product is really coming from. I guess I still believe in making money the honest way.

 

I have sold the Nouvalari, It is very nice and a very good quality.

Bottom line for me is that the client is very satisfied. And for them it is a balance of quality, service and price not always in that order.

As to the fabspeed role, I do agree. they should be clear and I am sure they will answer that.

Regards, Jim

 

If I had Fabspeed headers on my car and found this out, I would honestly consider changing them. Not due to where they are made, but how I was lied to about where they were made.

 

You are posting here on this topic, but have you read what they posted? I ask because you would not have posted this above if you had...

Their attempt at a reply to this is in a thread that they started (heck its copied or moved into this thread at post #9)...they did attempt to answer and its far from "clear" (please note the disparity with their own words in Post #2). And, other users here have posted very specific statements from earlier fabspeed posts on this forum that their latest attempt at damage control seems to invalidate. They got caught misleading us on this. Pure and simple.

 

Bottom line is you get what you pay for. some would welcome putting a 800.00 header on their ferrari as long as the quality and service suited their expectations whatever they may be.

 

I don`t believe jeff is the owner of fabspeed. correct me if I am wrong.

I will wait and see.

Regards, Jim

 

I don't know or care what their ownership structure is. You really think Jeff posted that response in some role other than as the Ferrarichat spokesperson for Fabspeed?

That is an odd position to take...

That said, if you are waiting for "them" to further attempt (or re-attempt) damage control, then I'm with you...I would if I were them.

Btw, here is another post where they are MARKETING TO US (!!!) and use the phrase:

"Our replacement headers are hand made in the USA"

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=334086&highlight=FABSPEED+USA

Please also read post #13 in this thread and the linked posts by Fabspeed wherein they say:

"None of our products are sourced from China. The only item we use that is not from USA are the raw catalytic converters... they come from Germany then are fabricated here"

http://www.thebestemployee.com/forum/showthread.php?t=323756

You can pretend (or wish?) they didn't make this mess, but some of us have eyes.

We (the users here) didn't say this stuff. FABSPEED DID. Good luck with your wait.

 

Their customer service is not universally good. I had a horrible, horrible experience with them, suffered damage, lost a summer. It was the pits. I let them take my car, my 360 to Phili for the grand tour. The trailer they picked it up in had a huge advertisement of a 360 in resale red and their gleaming exhaust. I was their target market. What they did to my car, and to me, was unconcionable. Let's not derail this into a customer service thread. I've never completely disclosed everything that happened, kept it in my back pocket. So let's not deflect and say that this is all okay because of their exceptional value add. When they screw up, they're absolutely awful to deal with.

Maybe because Jeremy from Fabspeed moved over to Nouvolari. His experience with Fabspeed is interesting as well.

As for their quality, my personal experience would be that you should visually inspect all items purchased from them before installation, not allow them to install unless you're planning on a thorough inspection later. My first set of headers were crap, wouldn't have known it if the rest of what they'd done had worked properly. We found out tearing it down and demanded a new set. The replacement set was pretty.

Once their full setup was installed correctly and the proper software finally in my ECU's, I was completely satisfied with the quality of the products. I really believe in being fair. Considering how far below the high end competition they are priced, it seems reasonable, even if they're passing off a great number of imported parts. I just spent $300 at Party City for a bunch of crap from China that I seriously doubt cost them more than $10. It's not an unusual business model. If one of you can find a way of bypassing Agency and Fabspeed for even cheaper product fully assembled in Taiwan, I'm sure there would be enough takers for a group buy. I wouldn't be one of them. I'm sticking with FERRARI parts this time. The MK2's sound nice and I'm quite satisifed with my car as is. No desire to go through exhaust upgrade fun ever again. Maybe a muffler.

 

Fabspeed is owned by Joe Fabiani. And, if anyone is interested:

What if I suspect noncompliance with the FTC’s Made in USA standard or other country-of-origin mislabeling?

Information about possible illegal activity helps law enforcement officials target companies whose practices warrant scrutiny. If you suspect noncompliance, contact the Division of Enforcement, Bureau of Consumer Protection, Federal Trade Commission, Washington, DC 20580; (202) 326-2996 or send an e-mail to [email protected]. If you know about import or export fraud, call Customs’ toll-free Commercial Fraud Hotline, 1-800-ITS-FAKE. Examples of fraudulent practices involving imports include removing a required foreign origin label before the product is delivered to the ultimate purchaser (with or without the improper substitution of a Made in USA label) and failing to label a product with a required country of origin.
You also can contact your state Attorney General and your local Better Business Bureau to report a company. Or you can refer your complaint to the National Advertising Division (NAD) of the Council of Better Business Bureaus by calling (212) 754-1320. NAD handles complaints about the truth and accuracy of national advertising. You can reach the Council of Better Business Bureaus on the web at adweb.com/adassoc17.html.
Finally, the Lanham Act gives any person (such as a competitor) who is damaged by a false designation of origin the right to sue the party making the false claim. Consult a lawyer to see if this private right of action is an appropriate course of action for you.

 

Dm_n_Stuff hit the nail on the head. Fabspeed clearly made a huge mistake in stating their products are made in the USA. When confronted by Stef, they backpedaled in an attempted to "correct" their statement, which in fact made it blatantly clear they initially made a false claim. This seems to be a rather large can of worms that could have some severe consequences for Fabspeed due to the deception.

 

For anyones that's interested, previous versions of their website are cached in the internet wayback machine www.web.archive.org

A cursory look didn't find a specifc statements regarding "made in the USA", however their "about" section consistently claims:

"Fabspeed Motorsport has over 16,000 sq ft of fabrication, sales and warehouse space in our Philadelphia location and additionally over 200,000 sq ft of dedicated manufacturing space in the USA"

I mean, if you're not manufacturing product in the USA, then why have a 200 000 sq foot manufacturing facility ? It begs the question do they make anything in the USA ? And where is the facility?

Noting that while Fabspeed don't appear to specifically state they manufacture in the USA, you have to ask yourself, what is the purpose of them mentioning that they have a US based production facility at all ? I mean if Fabspeed didn't think that was an important aspect of their marketing, they could have simply made no reference to their production facility at all.

When a consumer is an infrequent purchaser of a product, (ie headers for a Ferrari) they tend to rely a lot on information from other sources ( ie forums, friends etc ) and the general reputation of the supplier in making their decision. This is because until they've fitted and used the product for some time they have no first hand experience of what it's going to be like.

The major fail for Fabspeed in all of this is that they seem to have undermined their own credibilty with the manufcaturing location issue , despite by all accounts providing a decent product at a reasonable price with good support.

M

 

When putting aftermarket parts on a Ferrari, I think it's fair to know:

a) Where was the part designed?
b) Where was the part manufactured?
c) Where was it assembled?

Ferrari themselves lists all of the suppliers and countries which contribute to the finished product.

"Made in the USA" is a bold claim and it means something in terms of a value proposition because so few things are "Made in the USA." If the headers were Made in Taiwan and Assembled in USA, that is a different value proposition. What's the deal? I don't see any Made in USA claims on the website, is this just a case of employee re-training? What's on the box and paperwork when they arrive?

 

We ran into the same a couple of years ago in the 355 section. Jeremy was the poster then from fabspeed. Whenever someone tried to engage him in the quality and place of manufacture, he seemed to skirt the issue and said that they manufactured the headers in New Jersey. I have talked to many about the fabspeed headers and have heard from some mechanics that have installed them that they are crap. There were also a couple of members that had problems with the welds and lots of trouble getting satisfaction. If the OEM headers on our cars are made with less than the best Stainless steel, do any of you really think that something coming out of Taiwan or China is going to be any better? Frankly the only reason so many on here like them is because they are shiny and cheap. I really believe they are garbage and it didn’t take long for me to go to Tubi headers at twice the cost. Guys, the reason they want you to believe they are made in the USA is because they too know that quality is not their strong point.

 

I kind of laugh with you guys upset about how much mark up is in their headers. In all reality, it is none of our business how much mark up they add, or any other company. We have choices, Agency Power, Fabspeed, Tubi, Capristo, Novitec, or Ferrari for headers. I have not changed the headers on my 360, but if/when I do, I will look to this site and the experiences of owners to make my decision. If someone has had a product and it has performed well over time, that will be the first decision factor, price will be 2nd.

In my Industry we are constantly being scrutinized, accused of price gouging, etc., etc. when in reality we don't mark up our product nearly enough to cover the extreme risks in marketing, selling, and distribution. If you guys can find a better quality product at a better price, so be it. Buy it, test it, make sure it comes with a solid warranty and the company has adequate financial backing to cover a problem, and post the results for everyone here. Until then, I am hoping we don't keep beating a dead horse.

If anyone wants to complain about markup % for aftermarket parts, I am sure many would be upset with the other companies listed above at well, but luckily we have many choices, otherwise I can't imagine what replacement headers would cost.