FAQ: Shopping for a used 360

"There have been at least three 6 speed 360s in the personal classified section in the last two months or so with asking prices under $80k." Actually, I believe those were 360 Modenas, not Spiders, which is what Tim inquired about. Clearly prices vary by mileage, color, etc., etc., but there is indeed a $25-30K delta between comparable F1 and 3-pedal Spiders.

 

I like the paddle shifters; in fact, I bought a new BMW M2 back in the spring and held out for a DCT. I just thought that if I were going to buy a car and worry about what it's worth later a 6 speed might be a better idea. It seems that these cars have gotten some press lately and been the subject of some live forums that might be driving the price up a bit.

 

Thanks. I didn’t’t consider spider vs hardtop. Is there a premium for one over the other? Of course when new the spider was more $ but I wasn’t sure about the used market. When I started looking several months ago, there were a lot more spiders for sale but maybe that has to do with my Florida location where convertibles are common. I noticed the same thing when looking for Porsche 991s - more convertibles for sale than hardtops.

 

It does not make sense to me, but as I have been looking around for the past month I have found that in F1 cars, spiders and coupes are priced about the same. If you find comparable low mileage 6 speed cars, a spider runs about 10k more than a coupe. I'm just trying to decide if a six speed is really worth 30k more than paddle shift car. I like both.

 

If you're equally fond of both then the considerable savings on an F1 car is appealing, BUT keep in mind that they're a lot pricier to maintain.

 

Come on guys, get over the never ending internet urban legend about F1 cost. As someone who owned an F1 for over a decade I can tell you that I spent less than $2000 more than a manual AND that assumes that the manual had a maintenance cost of $0. The difference pales in comparison to the regular maintenance costs and isn't even a consideration.

 

My 2 cents. Have owned maybe 10 sports cars over the years. All manual. My C7 Vette is an 8 speed paddle because a friend convinced me just how fast they shift. My 2008 F430 is a paddle and it is fun to drive too. Do I wish they were manual? With the traffic in the SF Bay Area being ridiculous - no.


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"get over the never ending internet urban legend about F1 cost"- Glad you've had good luck thus far, but more than one Ferrari tech to whom I've spoken will tell you that it's just a matter of time until hydraulic issues crop up and cost BIG $ to remedy. Maybe that's worth the risk if you're that enamored of paddle shifters, but IHMO to deny the near certainty of expensive F1 repairs is a risky strategy.

 

not in everyone's experience. Certainly not in mine. So now its "1 to 1" in firsthand experience! My point is, your statement is very declarative, but its not par for the course for many. And I didn't even have the pump system or actuators fail (those that do - and there are many that do - are into a whole 'nuther ballpark of costs). No...just the little 'ol sensor is a major failure point (among several) on the F1 systems that lead to premature clutch changes. The F1 system also wears down the clutch faster than a manual on average. There is no debate that it costs more. And the F1 and related costs will be the highest maint item for many owners (until other stuff fails due to Ferrari's wonderful engineering and quality control).

 

for clarity the Vette is a slush box with tc and the 430 is a manual with robotized shifting and clutch operation (e.g. the same transmission as the manual, but with extra parts). So many automatics have paddles these days, but they are nothing like an F1 gear box inside nor in terms of experience. I wouldn't lump them together just because they have paddles.

 

A good experience does require that you get it sorted and set up well from someone who knows the system. Trying to hack it out or find the cheapest way isn't going to produce a good F1 experience. I agree that IF you have an actuator failure (fairly rare) the cost is high but a pump is not expensive (parts cost: $800 for a pump & motor, $200 for a motor). And yes, clutch wear is more on the F1 BUT, it is sold like some huge issue when it is not. It is easy to get 40K on an F1 clutch. If you drive 4K per year (far more than average) the clutch lasts 10 years. Do the math on a $5K clutch and it doesn't move the needle much. Is it more than a manual, sure. Is it a LOT more, not usually.

 

Apologies in advance for sounding argumentative...

My clutch was $9000, and I’ve seen several others that are that much if they too needed a fly wheel and everything else. The average clutch job is well over $5k, I’d venture from my experience closer to $7k.

Also, I have viewed hundreds of cars for sale with F1 and the majority have new clutches before 20,000 miles. Often well before. I’d bet a lot that the average is somewhere near 20k miles. (That doesn’t say that the rare car can go to 40k)

So using real world data it’s more like $7k every 20k miles. You can argue that isn’t much per year given how little use these cars get (and I wouldn’t disagree), but let’s at least use real math and not extreme outlier math. The pumps and relays and sensors and actuators failing is then the “rest of the story”.

Bottom line, there are simply no fact based arguments that the F1 system is not an expensive wear/fail item on these cars. Whether that amount of money is hugely material to an owner is of course variable based on the owner.

 

I don't take it as argumentative; I was worried that you would take offense but to me it is just a discussion. I know of several cars well over 50K on an F1 clutch. Can you burn one up more quickly, sure but you can do that with a manual as well. People drive them like an automatic or try to launch off the line. THAT can kill a clutch quickly but it does even with a manual. So yes, there are many who have replaced a clutch at 20K but that doesn't mean it is the norm for those that know how to drive a stick and treat it that way. As for cost, people often bundle up the 'while I was there' stuff into the clutch cost. I am sorry but 'while I was there' isn't part of the clutch cost and it make the bill appear higher than a clutch alone. I would argue that if even $1000 per year is material to maintaining the car, you probably can't afford the car. It isn't a question of IF it will throw another $10K bill at you but when.

I know you had a rough experience. I don't think we are that far apart. I generally find people trying to cut corners or do some it themselves without the knowledge & tools; Then they are upset when it doesn't work out well over the long run. I can't even count the number of threads where I tell them to get professional help and they just refuse, pushing ahead and further mucking things up. The F1 takes specialized training and tools. Without access to that, it will be a very expensive and frustrating experience. With a well set up system you will have may years of trouble free driving. And yes, if it was mucked up before you may spend some getting it sorted and set up well.

 

One precaution I would like to add that would apply to Ferrari and other cars. Beware of aftermarket stereo installations. I am sure some (few) are done properly but in my case undoing what a stereo shop has done has been the largest expense on my 360 in about 18 months of ownership. Replacing broken and stripped hardware, replacing trim with broken tabs, chasing rattles caused by poorly installed components under dash and in the doors, and tapping holes where they used wood/ sheet metal screws.

 

I could see that. Do you think that a quality aftermarket exhaust like Tubi or Capristo devalues a 360?

 

On any car there are acceptable quality modifications or improvements. Some exhaust systems are ok and some are not. Factory options are usually acceptable but I would recommend saving any original parts.

 

Good day, folks. Just hopping into this thread after reading it through. I am now officially on the hunt for my very first Ferrari, a late model 360. Looking forward to additional posts as I start finding some examples that I might be interested in.

 

Welcome. You might want to start a thread specific to your hunt. I am sure it will get a lot of attention and help. This thread is more like a buyers guide, or that was the intention.

 

Much appreciated, will do, and apologies if I stepped on any toes.

 

Great comment and some good takeaways if you are considering a 360 purchase.

I purchased a red and tan 2000 model F1 Modena in October from a dealer in AZ, not a Ferrari dealer but a high end car shop. The history of the car checked out well including a recent $20K bill which included engine mounts, belts and a few other key items. The clutch had less than 3K on it and although the car had covered 49K miles the exterior and interior were very nice indeed. So here's what I leaned...

The car arrived without issue and I drove it only twice in 3 weeks due to poor weather. All was good except for the faint smell of gas in the garage afterwards?? Then the third time I went to drive I had an issue... The car started but wouldn't rev. After some reading up I reset the ECU and everything was fine. I thought it was a battery issue and added a tender. But.... I left the car a week and it did the same again. So I decided to take the car into a specialist shop for a full health check and 3 months and $8K later I got it back fixed! Earth wiring issues meant the ECU's were resetting and in fact the LH one died. There was also a fuel pump leak which explained the gas smell with lot's of fault finding hours to add to the bill. I did include an ECU remap whilst being fixed to give an extra 25HP, I was already in for serious $ so I thought I would get something out of it.

I also found out that the car has a number of minor issues that I will need to sort over the next year or so. Steering and front suspension wear, AC leak and heater valve not working. I have decided to do all this work myself and ordered parts from Europe (cheaper) at a total cost of $2500. I did buy the car for a great price and even with the $10K added it will be a great car and still probably under book...but oh there has been pain!

My lessons learned and advise...No matter how good the car looks and drives, reputable dealer or not, get it inspected! Whatever you think the cost will be to do ay repair add a zero to the end of the number - It's a Ferrari! Another thing to remember is that Ferraris make engines and chassis and they do this better than nearly anyone. However for trim and even functional add-ons they suck and make no excuses. I have already spent many hours cleaning and fixing all those little things that get neglected and though don't impact the cars driving they annoy the crap out of me. Interior door handles that don't sit flush, door marker lights where the bulb have fallen inside the doors, interior light not staying clipped in, sun visors that wont stay up, broken seat adjuster and the dreaded sticky buttons and plastics that will at least clean up but really take some effort. So be warned...my 18 year old Italian princess is very high maintenance!

Do I regret buying her...I should but I don't. To own a Ferrari really is something very special and when you hear that engine behind you at 8000rpm you just cant stop smiling.

 

I can’t say thanks enough for all the information everyone has posted on FC. I’m shopping for my first Ferrari, and I’ve learned a TON. Just wondering if the items everyone has mentioned shopping for a 360 also apply to the 430? I’m probably going to be stretching my budget a little, but I’m trying to get the most mechanically sound machine I can find with options I want.


—
Fly fast and take chances

 

I had a 360 Spider and now an F430 Spider so I'm a little familiar with both.

Having said that I created this checklist to help others. See link below.

Hope this helps.

Dan

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/360-f430-specific-pre-purchase-inspection-checklist.568312/#post-145785769

 

Thanks Dan! Very useful!


—
Fly fast and take chances

 

You're welcome Kris.

Good luck to you!

Dan

 

This is a great thread full of amazing info! I’m officially on the hunt for a manual 360 Modena, and I’m glad I found this forum! Thank you to all who contribute!