Fatal car crash in the OC. Ferrari involved. | Page 6 | FerrariChat

Fatal car crash in the OC. Ferrari involved.

Discussion in 'California (Southern)' started by Flash G, Dec 24, 2009.

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  1. SrfCity

    SrfCity F1 World Champ

    Who knows what condition the driver is in? If he's just clinging to life it doesn't makes sense to charge him criminally etc. Authorities are buying some time for whatever reason?
     
  2. ferrcatt

    ferrcatt Rookie

    Dec 27, 2009
    3

    ----

    In reviewing the reports here of a Luicci and doing a quick Google search for the accident with the name Luicci added, there is a link to Facebook. Look at the friends of "Luicci Nader," you see many references to "get well to Luicci" and "RIP to Ralph" and you will also see he is perhaps only a late teen or early 20's at best. If this is true, it is understanding how the driver's name has been withheld (age).

    I'm not an advocate of unsafe driving and don't think this is any more or less tragic because a Ferrari was involved, but if the Facebook links are correct, these were young men (boys) who dared a lapse in safe driving judgment and lost in the dare. I am not saddened by the loss of an exotic automobile, but deeply saddened by the tragic loss of life.

    Youth...we were all there once, some of us survived similar near-tragic mistakes, perhaps some in exotics, while others in jalopies. For those of us who survived, we were lucky and the event is simply a memory past. For those who didn't survive, it is a loss just the same.

    My sympathy to the families and best wishes to their long recovery.
     
  3. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    98,541
    Vegas baby
    #128 TheMayor, Dec 28, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2009
    This is a post I found from Luxury4play.com...

    This is just so sad.

    "I have had numerous calls last night from friends making sure it was not my Murcielago/me in the crash last night. The reports that it was a Lambo were incorrect. New guy is right, it was a 430 Ferrari. I spoke to the car's owner this AM. I know him well. It was his son, Luicci (about 20yrs old) that was driving the car. Luicci is in a coma and his passenger, his cousin, was killed instantly. The father, as you can imagine is devastated. I was at the scene today looking at the brake/skid marks. The car left a skid mark across several lanes before jumping the median and hitting the tow truck. The car must have been really moving to have left such a long trail. It was disturbing. Say a prayer for the family. They need their son to come out of this."
     
  4. 4REphotographer

    4REphotographer F1 Veteran

    Oct 22, 2006
    6,197
    Arlington, VA
    Full Name:
    Chris
  5. ag512bbi

    ag512bbi F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 8, 2003
    7,540
    So. Cal
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    Armen
    Here is something that makes ALOT of sense. I was 16 when I got my 308QV. I was 17 when I traded it in for my 512BBI. These cars had 260+ & 360+ hp. These days the equal cars: 430 has 500+ & the 599 has 600+hp. That is ENORMOUS!!!!!! Thank god I didn't have this much power at such an inexperienced age. Who knows where I would be today. That is the problem these days. Kids with 500+ hp is just pure Russian roulette!!!! That is too much for EVERY kid. IT'S JUST SAD!!!!!!!!!!! EVERYBODY WITH YOUNG CHILDREN PLEASE REMEMBER THIS. DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!! I've been there being a child with 260hp to now with 660hp. IT'S THE TRUTH!!! HUGE DIFFERENCE!!!!! HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  6. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,295
    socal
    Guys talking about more driver skill and classes thereof and there should not be 500hp cars for some people are all nuts. I'd be careful what you say. The easy california solution would be to limit your HP to what you need for california highways...something like an electric prius 150hp. How would you all like that? Not possible well you bet it is. Lets see in 2009 they are banning mail order ammo sales and large TV's...what's next? High HP cars? People need to follow the laws and when they break them need to pay the consequences. In this case sounds like they broke the laws of physics.
     
  7. ag512bbi

    ag512bbi F1 Veteran
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    Nov 8, 2003
    7,540
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    Armen
    HARSH... and wrong. you have no clue. Have you experienced 500+ hp as a teenager? & have you experienced a loved one dying cause of an ACCIDENT? (Thank God I haven't). Nobody deserves this consequence. These kids have families. They didn't intend to do this.
     
  8. Brian26

    Brian26 Rookie

    Dec 28, 2009
    2
    N.B., CA / H.R., OR
    Full Name:
    Brian Towey
    I am not a member of the Ferrari or Supercar communities, but I was about a quarter mile from the scene when the accident occurred. I also frequently ride a bicycle in the bike lane that the F430 breached before it crossed several lanes of traffic and mercifully came to rest before it was able to kill any innocent people.

    I do have some experience with these types of cars and also track days. I have observed that the reputations of all that own and drive these cars is heavily tarnished by this type of event. These occurrences are so frequent that they have become expected.

    The small town in Oregon (where I spend most of my time) has been a destination for both impromptu and organized Ferrari events. When the Supercars are in town a frequent comment is “here they are again, I wonder which one is going to jail” – I think only one ever really went to jail, btw.

    You guys are highly visible and that this discussion should be about the forensics and vehicle dynamics that could cause this accident does disturb me. So again, not as an admonishment, but as a point of view you might not be familiar with. Ferrari drivers are looked upon sometimes with the same contempt as the “Tuner Kids” with their crazy looking Honda’s and Mazda’s with loud exhausts and obnoxious sound systems.

    I know some do, but would hope more of you would commit to exploring your cars’ fabulous capabilities at the track and developing that as a dominant part of your particular place in “car culture”. It takes years for somebody with natural ability to develop the skills to drive one these cars properly – now is a good time to start (with professional help).

    My friends, family and I all travelled that piece of road Christmas Eve. It could have been a lot worse.

    BT
     
  9. alexkam

    alexkam Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,116
    Sunny CA
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    Alex
    As sad as this horrific accidient is on many, im sure it will save more lives down the road, than what was lost. These families have my prayers and i sure hope they find the strength to get through this.
     
  10. verdegrrl

    verdegrrl Formula Junior

    Sep 3, 2008
    274
    NorCal
    Full Name:
    April
    Just spoke to someone else tonight who surveyed that section of road after the accident and looked at the tracks. He noted what you did, and then a series of marks that look like the car was experiencing tank slappers as the driver tried to correct.

    I'm sure most folks know what a tank slapper is, but here is a classic example:

    http://s581.photobucket.com/albums/ss256/ozmanny/TAR/Wakefield%20Park%20Mar%2020%202009/?action=view&current=JeffTankSlapper.flv
     
  11. Kevin2772

    Kevin2772 Formula Junior

    Jul 30, 2006
    732
    Ohio
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    Isnt a tank slapper something that happens to a Bike or something with a single pivot steering point and not a car?
     
  12. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
    26,295
    socal
    You would ban guns too I suspect? A kid is not going to buy a 500hp ferrari or even a 500hp vette. Parents who buys these cars for kids need to think and take responsibility for their actions and decide if it is the right choice for their child. I'm sorry if I'm harsh but thinning out the gene pool is never pretty. Our problem in America is that we don't allow enough "natural selection" and everyone else in the country suffers because of it. We don't need more laws to protect us from ourselves and tell us what we can't do.

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/27/california.gang.rape.investigation/
    Do you think the kids that stood by and watched a fellow teenage get raped are going to benefit from a law about "passive voyers to a crime or should they be taught a different upbringing?
     
  13. ForzaV12

    ForzaV12 Formula 3

    Sep 15, 2006
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    Steve
    Very true.

    I didn't read anything in Armen's post to suggest banning high performance cars. It sounded to me like he was urging the utmost caution to parents when selecting a vehicle that would be driven by their children.
     
  14. 2000YELLOW360

    2000YELLOW360 F1 World Champ

    Jun 5, 2001
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    Art
    The kid driving didn't have enough respect for the vehicle, and this was the end result. That was a factor of his youth, I suspect. However, there is indeed a dead young man. No matter how you cut it, the crime of manslaughter has been committed by the young man in a coma. Whether they charge him or not, death resulting from a minor crime is manslaughter, or worse.

    If indeed this kid had three prior moving violations, what in the world was the owner thinking when he lent him the vehicle?

    No matter the HP of the vehicle, young men will find a way to kill themselves with that vehicle, if they are so inclined.

    Terrible tragedy, but given what probably led up to it, unavoidable.....

    Art
     
  15. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Feb 11, 2008
    98,541
    Vegas baby
    #140 TheMayor, Dec 29, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2009
    Well, yes and no.

    I had a 246 Dino at 23. It had about 180 HP but for it's time, it was what I thought of as pretty fast.

    However, it had zero in the way of crash protection. If I hit anything at half the speed that this F430 did, the outcome would have been the same if not worse. Part of the reason I got rid of it was the idea of some idiot going the wrong way and hitting me head on one day. I was in an X 1/9 crash at low speed that just about destroyed the car. The thought of doing the same with a Dino was too much to comtemplate. I knew I would be toast.

    So, the horsepower may be increased today but the safety, ABS brakes, grip, and electronic controls are also much better. What you cannot control is the driver's foot. You could lose it in a Dino at 45 MPH just as easily as an F430 at 90 -- with similar results.
     
  16. FORZA 62

    FORZA 62 Karting

    Aug 22, 2007
    178
    north east
    Full Name:
    Frank S
    +1
     
  17. CalSpeed Karting

    BANNED

    Aug 21, 2009
    37
    Auto Club Speedway
    Full Name:
    Brad Packard
    #142 CalSpeed Karting, Dec 29, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2009
    As a result of this accident (and several much like it recently) the people at OCRaceCraft are offering a free car control and sports car dynamics seminar following Cars and Coffee on Jan 16th. The seminar will be held at the el toro air base in conjunction with a track day event. Here is the info from their site:




    "In the past year, on the public streets of orange county, we have seen several exotic car owners take their cars past the safe/controlled driving limit resulting in injuries and even death. This is something that can be avoided. We feel that these cars are sometimes over estimated in their abilities to corner, accelerate and brake. These beautiful cars are not what are causing these accidents. It is the lack of knowledge about the cars. OCRC has decided to host a free seminar on the do's and don't s of exotic car driving/owning. We encourage everyone to tell their friends about this event even if they are not an exotic car owner. We will be giving demonstrations and explanations for the recent events on the streets of Orange County. We will show you and your loved ones ways to avoid these tragedies.

    How many people have to get hurt before someone does something about it? We know we will not eliminate the problem completely, but we hope to make a difference in the lives of the people around us.

    For the family members and friends of the recent accident on PCH on Christmas Eve, our hearts go out to you.

    What will be in the seminar?

    -Learn the balance of a car

    -Learn what "Tire Patch" is

    -Watch a professional recover an out of control car

    -Hear from guest speakers

    -Learn about ABS and Non-abs cars

    -Learn why sports cars different that regular street cars

    -Learn how to experience your car without being dangerous

    -Drive your car on a safe closed course to learn about its limits

    -Bring your whole family and share this experience with your loved ones "
     
  18. Jet-X

    Jet-X F1 Veteran

    Nov 2, 2003
    5,688
    Orange County
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    Brian
    I don't think I've ever agreed with Art, but here, point #1, agreed.

    Let's remember, there have been numerous tragic deaths (most avoidable) that have less to do with the car being driven, and more about the recklessness being exhibited on the road. Plenty of Honda's, Nissans, Chevy's, you name it crashed (and deaths as well) due to reckless driving.

    PCH is not a race track, and driving recklessly (even in a Ferrari) is never acceptable. I've witnessed plenty of recklessness and stupidity both when in my Ferrari and also in a daily driver.

    I feel for the father right now, as he's in a world of emotional and family hurt, and will soon be in a world of financial and legal hurt as this works its way through the legal system. And family isn't immune from being sued by family (itself a tragedy).
     
  19. luv2detail

    luv2detail Formula 3
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    Mar 30, 2006
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    Jason
    Wow. I figured Luicci was the driver, but had no idea that he was in a coma. I actually detailed the 430 a little over 3 months ago. Luicci is a very nice young man as are the rest of the family members that I had met. It's too bad that a few seconds of actions can put a lifetime of hurt on so many people. I'm hoping for his full recovery and for Ralph to rest in peace.
     
  20. verdegrrl

    verdegrrl Formula Junior

    Sep 3, 2008
    274
    NorCal
    Full Name:
    April
    That is where the term originated, but it has extended to cars when they whip back and forth - usually from over-correction or too slow reactions. We use the term at the track (while driving cars) with some frequency.

    Doesn't the video look like a 4 wheeled tank slapper to you?
     
  21. SrfCity

    SrfCity F1 World Champ

    That was the deceased passenger with the violations. His cousin. Regardless, probably not the best guy to be egging you on.
     
  22. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    Bubba
    Hitting the curb and unmounting/flattening the tire...........
     
  23. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    Bubba
    Probably playing it close to the vest until investigation is complete...as one has posted the legal implications of the fatality will be HUGE.......

    Once "Case Closed" on all the investigation, it'll go to Records and be available to all.....
     
  24. DrStranglove

    DrStranglove FChat Assassin
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    Oct 31, 2003
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    Thats really pretty big of them. Kudos!
     
  25. TG

    TG F1 Veteran

    Oct 26, 2004
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    Taylor
    Thanks for sharing, definitely worth 2 hours of my time...
     

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