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Fatal trackdays and our own safety

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by fatbillybob, Jun 30, 2005.

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  1. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #1 fatbillybob, Jun 30, 2005
    We have had 3 fatalites in high end cars in as many months. I read many racing news web forums and guess what guys...it happens every month.

    The real problem is in 1975 when the new hot 308 came out it had about 200hp. In 1989 the 348 had 300hp. In 2000 a 360 had about 400hp and our day to day typical driving abilities did not get any better. And certainly we did not get any wiser. Big power, sometimes questionable abilites, sometimes big egos, bad luck = recipe for disaster.

    We know how to make cars safer to compensate for those 400 ponies. For those unaware of how to make your car more track safe consider some of these known safety items:

    Rollgages and roll hoops. The faster you can go the more you need these. The faster you can go the more you need real well designed cages with sill tubes, kneebars, doorbars, welded to A/B pillers etc...

    real racing seats. The faster you go the more you need real race buckets with the harness holes, non-articulating backs. The faster you go the more you should consider full-containment seats bolted to the rollcage not the car.

    Side nets. Sidenets capture you when crashes tend to spill you out of the seat. They are cheap and effective.

    Head/neck restraints. There is no reason to not have one. There is some manufacturer in every budget. One even costs less than a single racing slick.

    Real harnesses. 5pt or better. These need to be properly mounted. It is amazing what I see in people's home brewed race cars.

    proper attire. driving suits, shoes and gloves and of course helmet

    Fire protection in your suit, simple extinguishers and plumbed fire systems.
    Fuel cells.

    If all this stuff is making your streetcar a racecar you are correct. Streetcar safety systems are ment for the street. I do not believe in the street/track compromise. To me it is one or the other. All this other stuff above is for the track. The faster you can go the more you need this stuff. Today you can probably best the classic Mille Miglia time with a used Honda civic. People think I'm nuts for ripping into my Ferrari to put all this junk in. In reality I'm a big chicken. I think the guys with big cajones are the ones ripping around the track with just stock Ferraris. Those guys are the bold ones. The goal anyway it to live to race another day...

    Finally, for those who think "I'm a good driver smart enough to drive within my means (7/10ths) so don't need this stuff" please look at this video of this man just minding his own business.... http://jeffsweb.net/viperattack.php ....luckily no injuries just hurt egos.

    YMMV
     
  2. JH

    JH F1 Veteran
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    #2 JH, Jun 30, 2005
    You are not a big chicken.. You are very sensible, and I wish more people would do exactly what you have described and pay attention to what you have said in this thread. Safety first, not speed.
     
  3. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #3 mk e, Jun 30, 2005
    Agreed!

    It's never made me real popular here when I say it, but I will never drive any street car on a race track. Street cars are designed to allow the driver to survive a 65 mph crash. At a track where it is almost impossible to hit anything head-on, a street car is probably safe to 80 or maybe 90 mph (remember energy is speed squared, so crashing at 90 is twice as bad at 60, not 50% more). Most any mostern car will hit speeds that are well above safe.

    Race cars are required to have additional safety equipment because they need it. Street cars do not belong on race tracks, at least IMHO.

    Autocross is for street cars. You get to slide the car around, but courses are designed to keep speed down - under 65 for most cars, although I have hit close to 80 on some courses with a high hp street car.
     
  4. writerguy

    writerguy F1 Veteran

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    #4 writerguy, Jul 1, 2005
    After a lifetime of covering automobiles and now specializing in some of the high end of the bracket the biggest thing i tell ANYONE is learn how to drive. No matter how many miles are under your butt the modern sports car should be respected. ADVANCED DRIVING SCHOOLS. The standard for getting a drivers license in this country is dangerously low and it then allows you to legally drive any car truck or almost anything with HP ranges from 90-900 it also allows you to drive in everything from 30 mph winding roads to 75 8lane superhighways.

    Respect for what you are doing.
     
  5. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    #5 rob lay, Jul 1, 2005
    I'm with you 99%. I have race cars for the track and street cars for the street. You need the roll cage, 5 point, fire system, and window net for the track. However, it is more dangerous to drive with a roll cage and no helmet on the street than it is a street car with no mods on the track. Have a car for each. The 1% in me is the risk taker and it is fun as hell to push the 328 lap after lap not knowing whether it will be 15 minutes or 20 minutes into the session I will go to the brakes at 100 MPH and they won't be there. Now that is exciting!!! :D
     
  6. robert biscan

    robert biscan F1 Veteran
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    #6 robert biscan, Jul 1, 2005
    I used to track my street car and I just loved it. When Dale hit the wall at Daytona It got me thinking that I didn't have all the safety stuff and if you hit the wall at Road Atlanta it might be it for you. I'm no wuse but I need a track car for the track. I don't have room to store one.
     
  7. bwassam

    bwassam Formula Junior

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    #7 bwassam, Jul 1, 2005
    I've done the race car thing too. I agree that street cars on the track can get a guy into trouble rather quickly. I don't like driving track cars on the street because they not good in traffic. I like the idea of putting a rollbar in my 308. I've never considered that it would be more dangerous to drive it on the street with a roll bar in it, sans helmet. By the way, who makes roll bars for the 308? Is it a fabricate it yourself deal?

    Bob Wassam
     
  8. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #8 fatbillybob, Jul 1, 2005
    Well, you can be safe to a degre both ways by having a bolted in rollhoop that can be put in for the few track days you do per year. It should be at least 4 mounting points however. You can also do a full bolted cage like the 348/55C cars had. You would need to weld some plates to bolt too and that is about it. Safety is a moving target and needs to be though of as a system. Anything you do changes the system of the designer. You have to think about what compromises he made. In the case of rollbars in streetcars the problem is now you have reduced the interior cabin volume of the car and have something hard closer to your head. Similarly, 5pt harnesses are not DOT approved by there are numerous issues with why harness don't work well in streetcars. Also, harness should only be used with a true racing bucket with 5 holes for a 5 pt harness. By the time you have the rollbar, set, and harness you are looking pretty racy...you see where we are going with this... eh? Safety is a system with parts that are moving targets. There is no perfect system and even designing a simple one is like chess is to checkers...not a simple game.
     

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