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Ferrari 101: Re-paint

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by TigerAce, Apr 12, 2004.

  1. TigerAce

    TigerAce Formula 3

    May 29, 2003
    1,793
    Dallas, TX
    Full Name:
    Yoshi Ace
    I have been seeing some posts on re-paint or bad quality of paint on Ferrari, and always wondered.

    My 328 had blotchy spot w/ tiny white points when I bought it. You can see it in certain angle under the sunlight. It was about 10 inches long, and 2 inches wide. I asked the F dealer salesman of this, and he said it is not considered as a major problem as Ferrari often don't have a good paint job since it is hand painted by a person, not machine-sprayed. If I re-paint just this part of the car, it will bring down the value.

    My question is if a paint job is common problem for even new cars, why can't you get re-paint from F-authorized dealers?

    I was told if you re-paint Ferrari, the value goes down as it is not the original. Then, how could you tell from the original to re-paint, unless it's done poorly so you can visually notice it?

    There are many after-market paint house in the USA like FX Performance, who has million dollar facility just for exotic painting (that's what I heard from some car collectors) and they can do more than average jobs. What makes difference between, say, FX & F dealers' work? Just invoice for paint work?

    After 10 months of purchasing 1st Ferrari, I am still learning myth or facts of Ferrari. If I were not told of re-paint, I had probably taken the car to some paint shop in the neighborhood to do touch-ups then.
     
  2. F-passione

    F-passione Karting

    Mar 31, 2004
    173
    Orange County, CA
    If your car has never been repainted and that is in fact the way it came from the factory I would not worry about it. I would explain it as some of the idiosyncrasies of a hand build car. My '01 car has imperfections when you look at it at certain angles. Now if the car has been previously painted then it wouldn't hurt to have it redone in areas. Ferrari is building a multi-million dollar new paint facility that will really improve things.

    I'd rather know that a car is in its original beautiful condition if I were a prospective buyer.
     
  3. prancing

    prancing Rookie

    Jan 25, 2004
    20
    UK, Hertfordshire
    Full Name:
    Gareth
    Having taken a tour around Ferrari UK, their bodyshop had a few pre-delivered cars being repainted, even after shipping them direct from the factory. Although you could never notice after they are prepared. Excellent work.

    G.
     
  4. TigerAce

    TigerAce Formula 3

    May 29, 2003
    1,793
    Dallas, TX
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    Yoshi Ace
    F-passione
    " I'd rather know that a car is in its original beautiful condition if I were a prospective buyer."

    I didn't know this prior to buying Ferrari. I was wondering why some cars I saw then left all those small rock chips as they were.

    Prancing
    So they do re-paint works for new cars! I guess you just have to push for it then.

    Thanks for info!
     
  5. davequick

    davequick Formula Junior

    May 27, 2003
    307
    Bellevue, WA
    Full Name:
    Dave Quick
    Many Ferrari's that go through dealerships commonly have the front resprayed (i.e. both the bumper and the front body panels) to get rid of rock chips... sometimes by the past owner, sometimes by the dealer after trade in.

    It's a car.

    If you want to repaint your car it'll cost to do it right. My 328 was into the $1x,xxx range. It is a LOT of manual work to prep (block) the car right - lots of wet sanding. It's almost all labor time you'll be paying.

    If a seller won't include reciepts and won't put you in touch with the body shop that did the repaint then they skimped and you should be nervous... if they give you the reciepts and share the phone number, the contacts that are still at the shop that would remember the car, etc. then you're likely in good shape because the owner and the shop are proud of the job. (yes, you'll find the reciepts of the repaint and the shop number on the page about my car's history :).

    Factory paint is nothing special - just paint.

    To repaint to same as factory color = easy, to repaint to a completely new color = NIGHTMARE of expense to do it right.

    As always, just my opinion.

    -dq
     
  6. Uberpower

    Uberpower Formula Junior

    Feb 6, 2004
    902
    If there is damage to the hood (near emblem) would it be best to have damage repaired and respray whole hood or would you need to repaint the whole car to get the paint to match?

    Car is early 80s 308
     
  7. Dave

    Dave F1 Rookie

    Apr 15, 2001
    2,722
    Little Rock
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    David Jones
    If just the hood was damaged, then all that needs to be painted would be the hood. Anyone worth their salt should be able to match the paint.
     
  8. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    As an aside. If you want to do a repaint using the best painter in the world at a reasonable price I would reccomend Greg at GS Customs in Homer, Ill.
    Even factoring the cost of shipping it is well worth it. I have no $ stake in this only that after many years and many others he's the one I use.
     
  9. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 6, 2002
    73,135
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    Napolis is correct.

    The best thing is to use someone you trust, to do it properly.

    A touch up of panels, or total resprey should be undetectable, if done properly.

    I remember a new Mach 1 Mustang that arrived from the transport train. At some point in transit they had strapped it down with a CHAIN across the hood!

    Aye, carrumba! Straight to the body shop!
     
  10. airbarton

    airbarton Formula 3

    Nov 11, 2002
    1,462
    Kennesaw, Ga.
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    Chuck Barton
    I know everyone values a car in "original condition" but for crying out loud, these cars are just cars! Why should they be treated any different than any other car? IMHO if you are not happy with the way your car looks, repaint it! I might understand keeping a rare Ferrari original, that maybe only a couple hundred were made, but a 308,328,348,ect, come on! These cars do not even cost enough to worry about how much they will be worth after a repaint. Just enjoy them as you would any other car and plan on lossing money on it when you sell it! Go ahead and flame me now!
     
  11. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    I totally agree.
     
  12. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 6, 2002
    73,135
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    No flame brother, that's the facts!

    Anyone that tells you "original paint" on a '70s Ferrari better be showing a crazed, cracked, alligatored laquer! All the others are resprays. I do mine about every three years!
     
  13. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    You be right about that. In 1980 my friend and dealer called me up and told me it was time to buy a new 308GTBi. What color I asked? Silver. I don't like silver. No prob. All 308 paint is crap. I'll get F to go for a respray. I drove it in silver with a flat black bottom which Alberto put on and helped for 10K miles and then he sprayed it black. His paint job was MUCH better than the factory paint.
     
  14. airbarton

    airbarton Formula 3

    Nov 11, 2002
    1,462
    Kennesaw, Ga.
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    Chuck Barton
    I repainted my car by myself just to see if I could do it! I figured if I screwed it up I could always take it to a pro and have it stripped and done over. I guess I was lucky because it came out really good. The car looks 10 times better than it did before. It only took me a little over a month and a lot of hard work, but it was worth the effort. I did my homework of course and I had plenty of advice from a pro when I needed it. I was able to do the entire project for the cost of 2 spray guns, a compressor, and the paint & chemicals. The whole thing only cost about $700 and I learned a lot about the process as well. The hardest part was removing the glass. I was lucky on that as well, I still have the old glass with no cracks or anything. The rest of the dissasembly was easy. All you have to do is bag and mark all the parts so you know where they go when your done. I was even able to do the fiberglass repair on the front end. Any of you guys that own 348's know that pretty much all of them have damage to the lower part of the front end from being scraped on the road. I just took it off and rebuilt it using fiberglass sheet and resin, it was easy. The painting was not too difficult either. I used a base coat clear coat system. The beauty of it is you can screw up the base coat as many times as you need to until you figure out how to get it right. If you mess up you just sand out the mistake and re-shoot. By the time you get the base right you have mastered the spray gun and you are ready to shoot the clear coat. All the shine comes from the clear coat and you can even buff out any minor inperfections in that.
     
  15. Teenferrarifan

    Teenferrarifan F1 Rookie

    Feb 21, 2003
    3,017
    Media, PA
    Full Name:
    Erik
    If done correct the only way to tell would be with a paint thickness meter. I work at a car dealership and when we wholesale cars the first thing the wholesaler does it check the paint in random spots with the meter. There is no way to fool it, and getting the same depth as the factory is almost impossible to do. There are some cars that have great body work that you can't tell unless you test. But the whole point of that is to show that the car was hit in that area and look for frame damage ect. Other then that it doesn't affect value to have a top repaint at least I haven't seen it yet.
    Erik
     
  16. TigerAce

    TigerAce Formula 3

    May 29, 2003
    1,793
    Dallas, TX
    Full Name:
    Yoshi Ace
    Thanks for all advise. I re-painted 911 before, and it costed about $10K, too. Although it wasn't really top notch to my standard.

    Original condition is preferred, but if the car looks bad, don't hesitate to do re-paint from reputable paint shop.

    That's what I learned here.

    Nopoli's car looks beautiful. Yep, re-paint is good!

    Thanks all for education. (I cannot do what airbarton did, I just envy his capability as I often screw up just for touch up paints on my other cars)
     
  17. Ron328

    Ron328 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 10, 2003
    2,546
    Willamette Valley, Oregon
    Full Name:
    Ron
    Before I bought my 328, I noticed that the paint on the rear panel (where the license plate is placed) was cracked. It just didn't look good. The dealer (Steve Harris Imports) did a good job of repainting the panel. It now looks good as original and you won't even notice. I think what matters more is the quality of the paintwork.
     
  18. ghost

    ghost F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa

    Dec 10, 2003
    9,836
    Singapore
    Charles, that is impressive. You won't find a lot of guys that can do that. Great job. You gotta post the step-by-step instructions one of these days. ;)
     
  19. airbarton

    airbarton Formula 3

    Nov 11, 2002
    1,462
    Kennesaw, Ga.
    Full Name:
    Chuck Barton
    Actually the process is pretty straight forward. 1st find a garage or other space that you can seal up so that when it comes time to paint, you can keep out airbourne contaminants like dust. You can easily set up a blower of some sort by using sheet plastic and some tape so you can vent to the outside and move some air around in the space. I used the garage at my other house after the people we had leasing it moved out. I did the wet sand in the driveway and then rolled it into the garage for painting. Next you disasemble as much of the car as possible. You will be suprised at how much stuff just unbolts from the car. Next you remove the glass. This can be done by you, or you can hire a company to come to you and do it. Next you wet sand everthing until it all has the same look. Do not scrimp on this phase as it will be the one thing that will make or break the job. Once everything looks the way you want it, clean out the space real good and tape off anything you don't want painted. I used a roll of brown paper and masking tape to cover up everything I didn't want paint on. Now it's time for paint. One word of advice here, follow all of the manufacturers instructions inluding the use of protective clothing and respirators. The chemicals used in the new paints are very hasardous to your health! The base coat clear coat system is the way to go if you are a begginer like me. If you make a mistake, and believe me when I tell you I made plenty, all you have to do is wet sand it back down again and start over. The beauty of this is you learn as you go. By the time you finaly get it all right, you have mastered the spray gun. The base goes on almost dry. It will be dry to the touch within a few minutes after you spray. I would also advise you do your homework on the process. There are a lot of books and other sources of info available for this. Once you have the base coat the way you want it, do one final light wet sand with a very fine sand paper. I think I used 1500 grit or something like that. Then spray the whole thing with clear. The clear dries really fast so you have to move quickly. A word of advice on this, spray several thin coats instead of one thick one! The clear is super thin and will run easily. I would recommend you shoot a small piece like the hood or a door first just to see how it goes. That way if you screw up you will only have to fix that piece! The clear will be completely dry in about 30 minutes but I would let the whole thing sit overnight before you do anything else. Once everything is cured you can reasemble the car and buff it all out. 3M makes complete buffing systems for this purpose that you can get at the paint shop. All you will need is a high speed buffer which you can buy for about $75. The nice thing about doing it yourself is you will learn a ton about the process and you own all the equipment when your done. I did the whole thing for about $700 and I now own 2 nice HVLP spray guns, a compressor, and a buffer. If I had taken the car to a paint shop it would have cost at least $5000 and I would not have all this nice equipment. It was a lot of work but I had a good time, learned a lot, and I now have a great feeling of pride knowing I did it myself!
     
  20. Dave

    Dave F1 Rookie

    Apr 15, 2001
    2,722
    Little Rock
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    David Jones
    While I have painted many a vehicle in what space was available,
    I find the best results are achieved when using a down-draft paint booth.
     
  21. airbarton

    airbarton Formula 3

    Nov 11, 2002
    1,462
    Kennesaw, Ga.
    Full Name:
    Chuck Barton
    Your right about that. All the books I read about the process said a paint booth was the way to go. I did not have that available to me so I went with what I had. It came out really good despite the lack of a paint booth.
     
  22. 308tr6

    308tr6 Formula Junior

    Dec 23, 2003
    466
    SDakota
    Full Name:
    Rico
    Dave, I agree, although a carefully thought out home garage set up can work pretty well. Here is something to consider - take a vo-tech class. I am currently in an autobody paint class at a local community college and have full access to an awesome commercial paint booth, fully enclosed, computerized, downdraft, bake and purge. Plus you have an instructor to help you along the way. If you get in the right type of class they will let you bring in your own stuff - even your whole damn car. I've dinged around with autobody for a few years, but the class is great, learn something new every time I go, both from the instructor and other guys doing a variety of projects. Cost me $300, for a whole semester.
     
  23. Dave

    Dave F1 Rookie

    Apr 15, 2001
    2,722
    Little Rock
    Full Name:
    David Jones
    Good Idea,
    I had almost forgot all about that.
    I built a pro stock drag car years back at a vo-tech,
    and had access to all the pro stuff.
     
  24. norm

    norm Karting

    May 30, 2003
    204
    Rochester, NY
    Shoot the whole panel. Better than trying to blend into adjacent areas that have paint that is 20+ years old. No reason to do it. The whole key is when it is done, you should not be able to tell it was done. If you can tell it was repainted, than it's not a good quality job.
     
  25. sindo308qv

    sindo308qv F1 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
    3,518
    miami.fl.
    Full Name:
    sindo
    Charles is right, they're cars for heavens sakes,paint it if you think it needs it,even the millon dollar ones change the color even, I don't see them going down in price.
     

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