Ferrari 158/64 fuel injection question... | FerrariChat

Ferrari 158/64 fuel injection question...

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Rossa156-63, Jan 13, 2014.

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  1. Rossa156-63

    Rossa156-63 Karting

    Jan 21, 2010
    87
    Petaluma, CA
    Full Name:
    Patrick Galleguillos
    #1 Rossa156-63, Jan 13, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I am working on a 1/12 model of the 158/64 F1 car. I am not clear on the fuel injection lines as I don't see any! How did this system work? I'm trying to detail as much as I am able and would appreciate any better photos of the V-8 engine. Thanks.

    Oh, I'm still seeking clarification on the additional racing stripes on the spare 158 of Surtees early in practice for the Glen GP in '64.

    Rossa156-63
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  2. Rossa156-63

    Rossa156-63 Karting

    Jan 21, 2010
    87
    Petaluma, CA
    Full Name:
    Patrick Galleguillos
    Are these F1 engines indirect fuel injection? Some one give me an idea. These are World Championship vehicles. Someone must know something or who can I ask other than Forghieri? and if him tell me how to contact him!!

    Rossa156-63
     
  3. YAMVS6

    YAMVS6 Karting

    Jan 26, 2011
    138
    ohio
    i think a mechanical injection pump system
     
  4. Rossa156-63

    Rossa156-63 Karting

    Jan 21, 2010
    87
    Petaluma, CA
    Full Name:
    Patrick Galleguillos
    Thanks for some insight. Might it run off one of the cam banks? I see something on the right outside cam bank but it's none too clear. I need an engine change photo as I'm working off a photo of a dyno early engine. Anyone have such a photo?

    Rossa156-63
     
  5. swift53

    swift53 F1 Veteran
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    #5 swift53, Jan 16, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  6. Rossa156-63

    Rossa156-63 Karting

    Jan 21, 2010
    87
    Petaluma, CA
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    Patrick Galleguillos
    Roberto,
    Gracias, the photo do answer a couple of question for me. Might you have another photo of the front of the engine to the bulkhead? That would be great as your photos are very clear.

    Rossa156-63
    Patrick
     
  7. 335s

    335s Formula Junior

    Jan 17, 2007
    870
    SF Bay Area
    Full Name:
    T. Monma
    this is a guillotine/slide valve mechanical fuel injection system...
    the pump is the yellow item in the last or next to last pic in post 1
    additionally, when looking at the view of the cam cover and the plug wires, the upper lines which apear to be plug wires, are infact, hi-pressure fuel lines. Note carefully at the base of the manifolds joint to the head, you will notice that there appear to be brass right angle fittings...a dead gicveaway that THAT trun k of black lines are the fuel lines.
    the cog belt drive nest in "the valley of death", is a "magneto complex"....
    these are single plug engines at my perspective..
    lastly, notice the finned "can" with the fuel lin es coming off of it,,,this is, of course, the fuel cooler...
     
  8. Rossa156-63

    Rossa156-63 Karting

    Jan 21, 2010
    87
    Petaluma, CA
    Full Name:
    Patrick Galleguillos
    Again, this is the direction I needed. Thanks so much.

    Patrick
     
  9. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
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    Jeff B.
    One of my books has a cross-sectional drawing of the Ferrari 1.5 litre V8 engine. It APPEARS to be the same as this engine except that the intake trumpets are angled outwards instead of straight up and down. This drawing shows the injectors way down in the valley of the "V", threaded into the block, not the heads, with solid fuel feed lines coming down from the belt-driven injection pump.

    In tiny letters, the injectors are labled "Bosch DV0132"

    I'll see if I can get this drawing scanned and posted.
     
  10. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    May 15, 2003
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    #10 Boudewijn, Jan 19, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  11. Rossa156-63

    Rossa156-63 Karting

    Jan 21, 2010
    87
    Petaluma, CA
    Full Name:
    Patrick Galleguillos
    Please!!!

    Rossa156-63
     
  12. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
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    #12 Miltonian, Jan 19, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I'll try this on my old computer (hooked to the old scanner). The photo is from Sports Car Graphic (April 1964). It shows one of the injectors screwed into the block, below the cylinder head join. The diagram is hard to understand if I scan the whole thing at low resolution, so I've focused on the injector area. You can see that it is aimed directly through the top of the cylinder wall, and pointed right at the piston rings when the piston is at TDC - seems strange, but it has to be timed to open well before the piston reaches TDC, in order to compress the mixture.
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  13. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    Jun 19, 2012
    2,044
    I have stayed quiet on this subject, but now I believe you have it figured out. My memory is that the engine used Bosch direct injection similiar to a Mercedes 300 SL. Michael May, a Swiss injection specialist, was hired by Ferrari about this time to help them move from carburetors to fuel injection. Interestiingly, we have now returned to direct injection on modern cars as it allows high compression ratios and more power while still being very clean burning.
     
  14. Rossa156-63

    Rossa156-63 Karting

    Jan 21, 2010
    87
    Petaluma, CA
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    Patrick Galleguillos
    Grazie mille! The drawing is most illuminating.

    Rossa156-63
     
  15. gablet

    gablet Karting

    Jan 27, 2007
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    Gabriele Longoni
    Sorry for hijacking this thread Rossa156-63! ;)
    Need help in understanding what is written in the labels on 158's dashboard, here is a picture:
    [​IMG]
    I am almost sure that those 2 white "things" are switches and there is a chrome plated button beneath them.
    That black box is a fuse support and seems there are four inside.
    I managed to understand that above left switch there is written "Pompe" (pumps) but what's written above the other and above button?
    About fuses box, seems that from left to right these are the writings: Generale, ? , Pompe, Pompe.
    Could anyone help me?
    Best,
    Gab
     
  16. Ney

    Ney F1 Veteran
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    Apr 20, 2004
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    #16 Ney, Feb 14, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Gablet:

    While I cannot read what it in your photo, it is likely "Accenda" or "Accensione" or some abbreviation of this, meaning "ignition". The switch on top left, you have already identified as the fuel pumps. The right button would be the ignition and the button below is the starter button, common in this era. The process for starting would be to turn the pumps on, get the engine turning on the starter and then pull the ignition on with the right hand.
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  17. gablet

    gablet Karting

    Jan 27, 2007
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    Thanks so much for these informations Ney!
    Do you ever saw those strange white switches on other cars?
    Gab
     
  18. Ney

    Ney F1 Veteran
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    Apr 20, 2004
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    White, no. LM's had similar switches, but they are black.
     
  19. gablet

    gablet Karting

    Jan 27, 2007
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    Gabriele Longoni
    Thanks again Ney! ;)
     

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