Ferrari 212 E | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Ferrari 212 E

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by GIOTTO, Dec 1, 2018.

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  1. Sempre_gilles

    Sempre_gilles Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2003
    1,639
    Full Name:
    AdK
    I am afraid I have to correct myself: Pietro lo Piccolo won the Val d'Anapo - Sortino hillclimb twice: in 1968 and 1969.
    No entry in 1970 with a Dino 206S!!!
     
  2. Ed Niles

    Ed Niles Formula 3
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    Sep 7, 2004
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  3. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy F1 Rookie

    Apr 5, 2010
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    Nice train
     
  4. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ
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    Ed bought and sold it twice no doubt;-)
     
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  5. bs76

    bs76 Formula Junior

    Mar 6, 2005
    550
    Full Name:
    Björn Schlichting
    Hi all,
    a very difficult story, with a lot of different informations...
    Mr. Hofer himself told some different stories...

    This is was I know so far:
    Mr. Hofer owned a "standard" Dino 206 S in the end of 1969; in Cavallino Nr 188 he stated that this car was S/N 016
    Mr. Hofer bought the original body of 0862 directly from the factory in the end of 1969 and installed it on his Dino 206
    Mr. Hofer raced his "special bodied" Dino 206 at some events 1970 in austria
    Then Mr. Hofer said he loaned this special Dino 206 to a person for a german race car show (in the end of 1970? 1971?) and never get it back
    (footnote: A special Dino 206 with S/N 016 was offered by Max Irber from Munich in 1972; the further (swedish) history of 016 is well known)
    Now Mr. Hofer said he found the car last year and was able to bought it back...

    The following questions remains:
    1.) Which Dino 206 S owned Mr. Hofer in 1969/1970?
    2.) Which body was installed on his Dino 206 when he lent it?
    3.) Which S/N wears his Dino 206 today?
    (what we can say is that it is not 016 and not 0862;
    it was presented as 020 but I never saw a photo of the S/N)

    best wishes,
    BjörnS
     
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  6. bs76

    bs76 Formula Junior

    Mar 6, 2005
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    Björn Schlichting
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  7. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ
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  8. bs76

    bs76 Formula Junior

    Mar 6, 2005
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    Björn Schlichting
    The problem is, that nearly all informations about the car(s) came from Mr. Hofer himself...And this informations differs from time to time...
    It would be very interesting and helpful to hear from Mr. Jung, what he bought and what he did with that car.
    And, of course, what Ferrari would say.

    best wishes,
    BjörnS
     
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  9. dino286

    dino286 Karting

    May 1, 2006
    91
    Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Eugène Vingerhoeds
    Is there anyone who can give an in depth comment on the article of the 212 E published in the magazine Forza no. 185 (november 2020)?
    This story means that s/n 020 belongs to Mr. Hofer then (in 1969) and still today. He says he owned 016 at that time (1969-1970).
    He doesn't say he owns 016 today, I concluded.

    Some questions wouldn't be posed if there was a picture of the ID tag and/or stamp of s/n 020. Mr. Hofer.... ????
    Where are s/n 016 and 022 today?
    Are there two s/n's 022?
    Is s/n 020 renumbered from s/n 0862? If not, where is 0862 today?
    Where is the original 212 E engine today? I understood two were build (Forghieri in Cavallino No. 97: "...one one of which was only a prototype for the dyno.).
    See further the four contributions in LETTERE, Cavallino No. 101.

    I don't dare to ask questions about the different bodies........

    I'm very curious,
    Regards
     
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  10. Bjoern Schmidt

    Bjoern Schmidt Karting

    Mar 6, 2005
    90
    Stuttgart/Germany
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    Bjoern Schmidt
    Car dealer Max Irber from Munich offered 016 in German magazine "Auto, Motor & Sport" in April 1972. Claes Jung told me in 2014 that he then contacted Irber and finally got a deal done for the car including spares in July 1972. He paid 8.500.- Deutsche Mark for the package.

    Ferrari Classiche certified 016, then still owned by Jung, in 2013 confirming that chassis, body, engine and gearbox were original and matching to the car. Jung then sold the car through Peter Wiesner at Retromobile, Paris in February 2014 to a collector from Germany. At that time a spare engine was installed while the original engine was still with the car.

    Regards

    Bjoern
     
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  11. bs76

    bs76 Formula Junior

    Mar 6, 2005
    550
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    Björn Schlichting
    Hello,

    in the last days I collect all informations I could get on the Hofer Dino/Bergspyder to make a timeline of the purchase, race and sold dates. Maybe Marcel or others can confirm some of the dates, correct or can give additional informations.


    1969 (November or December) / Mr. Hofer bought the original Ferrari 212 E body at the end of 1969 directly from the factory.

    Now (since 2017) Mr. Hofer claimed, he bought together with this Ferrari 212 E body also Dino 206 S chassis S/N 020 without engine and gearbox.

    1969 December / If that is true and can be proven Mr. Hofer owned the original Ferrari 212 E body and a Dino 206 S chassis S/N 020 (without engine and gearbox).

    1970 March / Mr. Hofer bought and imported Dino 206 S S/N 016 with “212 E Bergspyder look-a-like body” to Austria

    This car was owned by Lado in 1969 and received also a “212 E Bergspyder look-a-like body” in April 1969 and raced by Lado in this body configuration since the 1000 Km Monza race. A good picture of this car in the Spyder-body configuration can be found on the book “Dino - the little Ferrari” by Doug Nye on page 234 at the Mugello Grand Prix. This body has some interesting details on the hood, e.g. 2 triangular air inlets left and right from the Dino badge and a high rearview mirror.

    I think the timeline could be interesting. In the past and still today Mr. Hofer said, that he owned 016 before he bought the Ferrari 212 E body - to be installed on 016. But if the dates knowing today for the purchase of Ferrari 212 E body and 016 are correct, it was the other way round. He owned the Ferrari 212 E body before he bought 016.
     
  12. bs76

    bs76 Formula Junior

    Mar 6, 2005
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    Björn Schlichting
    1970 05. April / Erzherzog Johann Pokal at the Österreichring, Austria. Mr. Hofer raced a Dino with race nr. 1 at this event. A foto of that race from the website “technisches museum Wien” (photo credit to this site) shows Hofer’s car in the background of a Porsche 910. And still visible are the 2 triangular air inlets left and right from the Dino badge and a high rearview mirror. So we can say that Mr. Hofer raced here Dino 206 S S/N 016 with the “212 B Bergspyder look-a-like-body”.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  13. bs76

    bs76 Formula Junior

    Mar 6, 2005
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    Björn Schlichting
    1970 31. May / The “Behamberg hillclimb” was the next known race, nearly 2 months later. At this event we see a car with the Ferrari 212 E body, lightly modified and with race Nr. 188. The hood has no air inlets and a Ferrari badge (like the 212 E body in the 69’er saison) but the body has 2 additional air inlets in the stern and not the huge vent over the engine (which the 212 E body had during the 69’er season).

    Mr. Hofer’s statements for the identity of this car differs. In the past, he said that he scrapt the Spyder-body of 016 and installed the Ferrari 212 E body on his Dino 206 S S/N 016 (see Cavallino Nr. 101). Now (from 2017 till today) he said, that he used Dino 206 S/N 020 with the Ferrari 212 E body for this race (see the card from the Medina Classic).

    I think, at this point we can’t say for sure which chassis was used. It was enough time to change the body on 016 but also to finish a “rebuild” of chassis 020 with 212 E body and new engine and gearbox. And have we any proof, that the 016 Spyder-body really was scrapt?

    It would be interesting to know, which engine was used in this car for the Behamberg hillclimb. Maybe someone has a race program and we can see in which class the car was entered and which engine capacity was given.

    After the Behamberg hillclimb, I don’t know of any other race entry from Hofer with this car.

    So at this point we have a car with the Ferrari 212 E body and, following Mr. Hofer’s statements over the years, 2 possible S/N: 016 or 020… Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  14. bs76

    bs76 Formula Junior

    Mar 6, 2005
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    1970 end of the year Mr. Hofer loaned / give the car (with the Ferrari 212 E body) to a friend to be shown at a munich race car show (said Mr. Hofer).

    Here we have the same conflict of 2 S/N given by Mr. Hofer to this car. In the past he said, this was 016 with the Ferrari 212 E body, now (since 2017) he claimed that this was 020.

    In the early 70’s there were a lot of auto / race car shows in germany. I don’t know, which race car show this could be. It was definitely not the Greger race car show (as mentioned in this article) because Greger started with his show in November 1972.

    https://www.classicmotorsportnews.com/showfeature.asp?art=27193

    1972 April / May a Dino “Special” race car was offered for sale by munich dealer Max Irber

    1970’s Dino 206 S/ 016 (in which body configuration?) ended in Sweden with Claes Jung, was later restored, rebuild and certified by the factory

    I never saw pics of the car from the race car show or for sale by Irber or when sold to/owned by Claes Jung. It would be interesting to see if this was the same car and what body it had installed.

    2017 following the statement of Mr. Hofer, “020” with Ferrari 212 E body (but without engine and gearbox) also pop up in Sweden and was bought by Mr. Hofer. Then he installed a Dino F2 V6 engine and showed the car since 2018 at various “minor” events around Europe and north Africa.

    This timeline left a lot of questions. We need some more photos (from the race car show, from the dealer in munich when the car was offered and from Claes Jung). Also interesting are official sale documents (if there were really 2 cars/chassis, then only one was loaned and stolen, the second one must be “official” sold...or stayed with Hofer???).

    best wishes,
    Björn
     
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  15. montagna

    montagna Rookie

    Mar 14, 2014
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    #41 montagna, Sep 30, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2020
    so to stir the pot a little more...how does "0862" fit into the Hofer story of 016/020? according to the catalog when RM sold 0862 in 2006, 020 was renumbered as 0862 after being used briefly for the 250 P5 show car. RM said it was sold via the factory to Edoardo Lualdi-Gabardi, then Bardinon, then Jacques Setton, then the "current owner" (as of 2006, Monteverde?) in 1997. No mention of this colorful history with Hofer. Because of this, I had always thought of the Hofer car as having a 212 E body, nothing more (edit: reading back in this thread, it seems others share this opinion). 0862 supposedly retains the original chassis and unique engine, which I think most would consider the main points of interest and identity of this model. No idea if 0862 has appeared publicly since the 2006 sale.

    link to auction catalog listing, archived because it is no longer live on the RM site:
    https://web.archive.org/web/20140309042821/http://www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=33790

    (despite my name on this site i have no past or present association with this car, just a fan)
     
  16. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
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  17. bs76

    bs76 Formula Junior

    Mar 6, 2005
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    Björn Schlichting
    Mr. Hofer claimed that the car, which raced in the 69'hillclimb season by Schetty, was Dino 206 chassis 020. This car had a Ferrari V-12 engine.
    So some questions for the experts:
    Is it possible to install a V-12 engine in a Dino 206 S chassis????
    What dimension has the chassis of 0862??
    Is the chassis of 0862 different from a Dino 206 S chassis??

    best wishes,
    BjörnS
     
  18. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ
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    #44 Nembo1777, Oct 16, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020
    Yes; was the Hofer chassis built in Maranello....Austria or elsewhere? Is it real or not? Has anybody inspected it?

    As far as is known the real 020 IS 0862, owned since 2006 by Italian collector G.P. in Switzerland after he bought it at the RM 2006 Arizona auction. To be clear as far as I know 020 ceased to exist when it was modified into the 212E Montagna chassis by the factory in period and re-baptised 0862.
    Mr Hofer may have the original body as bought after the 1969 season but I don't see how his car can be chassis 020: a fuzzy state of affairs...not unprecedented in his case.
     
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  19. GIOTTO

    GIOTTO F1 Rookie
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    Dec 30, 2006
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    Latest news. The administrator of the French Autodiva forum Gérard Gamand was able to drive Egon Hofer's car.
    Here's what he claims:
    After the 1969 season, Egon Hofer bought the 212E and installed a V6 Dino. He also says that the 1969 212E Montagna has always carried the chassis number #020. Ferrari kept the 12-cylinder engine and installed it in a brand-new chassis (#0862) for Lualdi.

    So we have #020 in 1969 with Schetty, and #0862 in 1971 with Lualdi. Two different cars. >>> Hofer says so <<<

    Gérard Gamand also says he has a three-page handwritten letter from Mauro Forghieri confirming this.

    https://www.autodiva.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4478&start=240

    You'll probably have to register to access the forum and view the photos, but it's free.
     
  20. ERault

    ERault Karting

    Aug 8, 2007
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    I have no dog in this fight, but I do wonder how a a brand-new 1971 chassis could have a 1967 chassis number (0862) ?
     
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  21. nico308

    nico308 Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2011
    392
    He will probably published an article of the car in a futur Autodiva magazine .
     
  22. ERault

    ERault Karting

    Aug 8, 2007
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    Emmanuel RAULT
    I had forgotten about this : anyone had a look at the Autodiva article and its claims ?
     
  23. nico308

    nico308 Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2011
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  24. GIOTTO

    GIOTTO F1 Rookie
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    I haven't read this issue of Autodiva magazine, but the editor and forum administrator Gérard Gammand wrote this in February 20, 2024 :

    *Good news: the authentic Ferrari 212E #020, 1969 European Mountain Champion with Peter Schetty, will be getting a Flat 12 again !
    In Modena, the owner has just found a Flat 12 block and cylinder heads that were at the home of the son of a former Scuderia mechanic.
    The components have been authenticated by Ferrari Reparto Classiche.
    This is one of the F1 engines fitted to chassis 1512 #0007*


    Egon Hofer is known to have several replicas in his collection, and this *212E* should be closely inspected by serious people.

    The Autodiva forum is very interesting. You need to register, but it's free.

    https://autodiva.fr/board/

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