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Ferrari 250 GT Berlinetta SWB Competizione #1965GT

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Raphaël BELLY, Jun 25, 2015.

  1. Raphaël BELLY

    Dec 20, 2013
    37
    Monaco
    #1 Raphaël BELLY, Jun 25, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hello guys.

    I'm opening a new thread on this forum to share with you some pictures and a little story about the Ferrari 250 GT Berlinetta SWB Competizione #1965GT.

    English : eGarage - Ferrari 250 GT Berlinetta SWB Competizione

    French : eGarage - Ferrari 250 GT SWB Berlinetta Competizione Francais

    My aim is not to be a boaster, I'm just sharing with you this meeting, these pictures and the car with some informations I gathered on this story. I hope there will be no mistakes.
    If there is something wrong I'm always opened and I'd be happy to correct it.

    Thanks for your attention.
    I hope you'll enjoy.
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  2. SteviePPS

    SteviePPS Karting

    May 11, 2013
    66
    EU
    Full Name:
    Steve Warson
    There's a PDF on this site dedicated to its "Siamese twin" with some history on 1965GT as well. Perhaps together it tells a story.

    DHG Racing | Ferrari 250GT/Comp'61
     
  3. gt4me

    gt4me F1 Veteran

    Sep 10, 2005
    5,376
    UK
    Great photos.
     
  4. nschots

    nschots Formula Junior

    Jan 7, 2011
    275
    Buenos Aires.
    Full Name:
    Nicolás Sch.
    Very nice photos Raphael.

    My question to the "Maestros" here is, according to barchetta;

    60 - Ecurie Francorchamps, B for Jacques van de Velde, NL EF p120
    60/sep/15-23 dnf Tour de France Jacques van de Velde/ Claude Dubois #155 TdF p155 "67.F.73"
    61 - Guy Hansez, Brussels, B - alias "Remordu"
    61/apr/30 dns Cote de la Roche "Remordu" #86
    61/may/14 7th OA GP de Spa Jacques van de Velde #7 "69.N.52"
    61/may/28 2nd Cote d'Alle sur Semois "Remordu"
    61/jun/04 2nd IC Cote de Bomerée "Remordu" #112
    61/jul/02 2nd IC Cote d'Andenne "Remordu"
    61/jul/09 1st IC Coupes Benelux, Zandvoort "Remordu" #48 "BF.182"
    61/sep/24 2nd IC Cote d'Houyet "Remordu" #111 "BF.182"
    61/oct/01 1st IC Cote de Namur "Remordu" #115 "69.N.52"
    61/oct/08 3rd Coupes du Salon, Monthlery "Remordu" #10 "69.N.52" Pourret p325
    61/nov/05 Zandvoort "Remordu" "BF.182"
    62/mar/11 2nd Cote de Fléron "Remordu" #86 "69.N.52"
    62/mar/25 2nd IC Cote d'Alle sur Semois "Remordu" #91 "69.N.52"
    62/apr/15 5th OA Coupes de Bruxelles Jacques van den Haute #10 EF p120 "69.N.52"
    62/may/13 2nd IC Cote de Bomerée Jacques van den Haute #124
    62/may/21 dnf GP de Spa Robert Darville #32 EF p121, 136 "338.X.3"
    62/jul/08 1st IC Coupes Benelux, Zandvoort Gustave Gosselin #66 "338.X.3"
    62/sep/23 1st IC Cote d'Houyet "Remordu" #89 "69.N.52"
    62/dec/01 acc. GP Cidade Luanda Robert Darville #5 "EF.3"
    62/dec acc. GP Luanda Robert Darville #5 EF p121 "EF.3"
    62 - crashed and totally destroyed by Robert Darville in Angola

    and then;

    .. - reproduced as SWB by Hietbrink, NL
    94 - Joern Holger Richter, Gstadt a. Chiemsee, D
    96/jul/20-21 Ferrari Racing Days, Nuerburgring Joern Holger Richter

    So...

    What is this car that Raphael took brilliant photos?

    Bests,

    Nick.
     
  5. Raphaël BELLY

    Dec 20, 2013
    37
    Monaco
    The car I took pictures of is the original one, not the one on which chassis number was stamped in the wrong place with "#1965GT" (the one reproduced by Hietbrink which tries to pretend to be the real #1965GT).
     
  6. nschots

    nschots Formula Junior

    Jan 7, 2011
    275
    Buenos Aires.
    Full Name:
    Nicolás Sch.
    Thank you for the confirmation Raphael. So.. here is something new, that for the records, 1965GT was destroyed and dissapeared, and someone took those parts from the original car and rebuilt it.
    So the history begins again for the data records.

    Thank you!
     
  7. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    14,415
    You may want to verify the chassis and engine numbers in that yellow car.
    How about photos of the numbers?

    Marcel Massini
     
  8. Raphaël BELLY

    Dec 20, 2013
    37
    Monaco
    As said in my story :

     
  9. nschots

    nschots Formula Junior

    Jan 7, 2011
    275
    Buenos Aires.
    Full Name:
    Nicolás Sch.
    Are you sure that the chassis number is #1965? Do you have photos of it? The stamped numbers, also photos of the engine? Are them the correct stamp? ..

    Bests,
     
  10. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    14,415
    Photos of the numbers, please.
    That yellow car uses engine #2589 GT with internal #712 E and heads of 2033 GT, the chain case is stamped 2033 GT. Gearbox #539-104, rear axle #357 E.
    March 2008 with Dominique Vaccini in Paris, France.

    Marcel Massini
     
  11. nschots

    nschots Formula Junior

    Jan 7, 2011
    275
    Buenos Aires.
    Full Name:
    Nicolás Sch.
    #11 nschots, Jun 25, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2015
    Thank you Marcel.

    N.-
     
  12. Raphaël BELLY

    Dec 20, 2013
    37
    Monaco
    If I'm not wrong this is heading towards proving that the car is not the Heitbrink replica.
     
  13. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    14,415
    Just supply photographic evidence of the various numbers, please. Thank you.
    There is no intention to say anything bad about the yellow car (which used to be black before).

    Marcel Massini
     
  14. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2006
    2,989
    tewksbury
    Full Name:
    george burgess
    "1965GT was destroyed and a new car was delivered to Francorchamps, s/n 2445,which used the 1965 carnet in order not to pay the duties, as was done all the time in those days.At LeMans in '61.2445 was crashed and badly damaged a the left front, bur certainly not destroyed.In fact the repair was not that difficult and was done by Drogo who welded in parts of the chassistubes on both sides at the front(the welds can be seen) and and put on the different nose and tail. The complete center section, interior and doors are original. The original 2445 chassis plate was hammered down, filled with lead and 1965 stamped in.When the lead was melted out, 2445GT was still there, although somewhat damaged from the hammering down. The engine of 2445 has been se1964 wgich parated from the car long ago and should be in Switzerland( Marcel M. do you know where??)....." My pictures of the chassis tube and engine block from 2008 shows #1965 GT.According to my notes the car was first crashed at Angola in 1962,not LeMans. Drogo repaired the car with a new Drogo body and displayed a car at the 1964 Turin show in 1964 which "may" have been #2445.The whole James Coburn thing etc is known but where the confusion lies is what happened when Heitbrink and Massimo Colombo rebuilt the car to look like the 1960 original using both 1965 and 2445 sns. Apparently on paper the 2445 sn is what shows. According to M. M. there is some question today about the sn today on the engine and chassis. Also let's not forget the post by toto70_0, 2-11-2011 referring to 1962 crashes at Angola and LeMans. I will check on WSRP on this. tonga's crew
     
  15. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    14,415
    TTBOMK Massimo Colombo was not involved.

    Marcel Massini
     
  16. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2006
    2,989
    tewksbury
    Full Name:
    george burgess
    Chassis #1965 crashed at Luanda by Robert Darville, Fall of 1962. Chassis # 2445 crashed at Le Mans Spring 1962 driven by Berger and Darville. Are we having fun yet. tonga's crew
     
  17. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2006
    2,989
    tewksbury
    Full Name:
    george burgess
    Hi not sure what this means.If you shouldn't post this just give me a rough idea. Tx. tonga's crew
     
  18. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
    Global Moderator Owner

    Aug 1, 2002
    17,966
    San Marino, CA
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    L. Wayne Ausbrooks
    TTBOMK = To The Best Of My Knowledge.
     
  19. Raphaël BELLY

    Dec 20, 2013
    37
    Monaco
    Great to read :)
    I'm also not saying it is all original etc, as said in my story it has been restored with the as many original car parts as possible.

    But the owner didn't tell me about #2589 GT engine used that's why it's written started to restore it only 13 years after in 1986 with its original chassis #1965, its engine #1965.

    I am convinced that the owner is not trying to make it be thought of as what it is not, himself told me that he knew very well that it was not 100 % original, and that it possessed numerous parts recreated.

    Thanks Marcel.
     
  20. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    14,415
    Photos of chassis and engine number and internal engine block number plus data plate would be helpful. Thanks.

    Marcel Massini
     
  21. Raphaël BELLY

    Dec 20, 2013
    37
    Monaco
    You'll have it soon, I'll upload the chassis number & engine picture.

    You are right on some datas but not on everything, in particular the engine number, it's not #2589GT, it is #1965GT.

    Pictures coming soon.
     
  22. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
    Global Moderator Owner

    Aug 1, 2002
    17,966
    San Marino, CA
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    L. Wayne Ausbrooks
    With what internal number?
     
  23. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    14,415
    #23 Marcel Massini, Jun 26, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Really?

    Marcel Massini
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  24. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2006
    2,989
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    george burgess
    Thanks. I like this. It keeps the door just open enough to......... tonga's crew
     
  25. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2006
    2,989
    tewksbury
    Full Name:
    george burgess
    When you go to SWB #2589 it would appear from the MTR for sale ad of Sept 9 1973 when the car was in Amsterdam that the below the car was stated as "Throughout original". At some point the engine was examined and had the appearance of being from a Pininfarina coupe but with a stamping showing 2589. So if this is true where is the real 2589 engine? Now Marcel's picture of the engine stamping of 2589GT looks like it is on a plate and may not be original. This doesn't really solve anything unless the plate is removed.Who knows what may be underneath . There are two stampings below the plate in the actual engine block, What are they? tonga's crew
     

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