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FERRARI 250 GTO...!!!

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by 134282, Apr 20, 2004.

  1. mcimino

    mcimino Formula 3
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    The mats were just the start...he has expanded into quite a few other accessories. Like the guy from Griot's Garage...he also seems to have a nice collection cars now.
     
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  2. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle F1 Rookie
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    #327 Bluebottle, Jun 8, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2018
    So why is the GTO, not the LM, the most valuable? This article (below) does, IMO, pose an interesting question. Doubtless those with greater knowledge of these legendary cars (about which most of us, myself included, can only dream), can answer it.

    "The reported 70m US dollars paid for a 250 GTO last week got us thinking about which Ferrari we’d rank above any other. Sure, every man and his dog covet the GTO, no doubt catalysed by its frankly absurd value. And yes, it was a dominant racing car in the period, even if it didn’t win Le Mans outright like the LM. But still, given the LM’s recipe of competition success, rarity (just 32 were built, making it rarer than the GTO), and sheer beauty, we’re struggling to understand why it’s worth only around a third of a GTO. We organised a rendezvous with this sensational Maranello Concessionaires car to show you why the 250 LM is our grail Ferrari"

    https://www.classicdriver.com/en/article/cars/gto-who-why-ferrari-250-lm-our-true-grail-ferrari?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=472018 Ferrari 250 LM EN&utm_content=472018 Ferrari 250 LM EN CID_f3eff1b8602d544edd2fb53adff3fcb4&utm_source=newsletter
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  3. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Again: The reported price of 70 M $ is NOT correct.
    Secondly: It is the market that speaks.
    Thirdly: He who buys a GTO basically pays the membership fee for a highly exclusive club (36 members only), a bit like the golf club. The car may be worth 5 M $ and the membership fee just raised a bit recently. One pays for three letters "GTO". Like when you buy a (250) "California". You pay for the name.
    Also: The GTO is a true dual purpose car (race and road), the LM is that not so much.
    Plus: Front engine vs mid-engine.
    And many other reasons.
    Not to forget: beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  4. Christian.Fr

    Christian.Fr F1 World Champ

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    36....what about 2 Gto body 62 in 4lt?

    Be reasonable, 38 cars make the ticket entrance for 45 millions.
     
  5. Christian.Fr

    Christian.Fr F1 World Champ

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    Call it: Apartheid :)
     
  6. bitzman

    bitzman Formula 3

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    Several media quoted $70 million in their stories about the latest GTO sale, some fearuring quotes from Massini, so what is the price the Illinois man paid?

    Also someone else on this forum said 17 GTOs are entered at Monterey for the Rolex Revival, but I want to know how many cars max can be on the grid--is there room for more?
    What time will the GTO only race be, and I presume it will be Saturday because some may be showing at Pebble Beach on Sunday?
    Finally, though vintage racing is supposed to be just for fun, not for cash prizes, I wonder in the next few weeks if we will see "ringer" drivers names being floated as signed to drive some of these GTOs at Laguna, perhaps LeMans veterans?
    Hmmm, wonder if old GTO racer Roger Penske would like to show he still can control that beast....
     
  7. bitzman

    bitzman Formula 3

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    So all these nedia are wrong? Who released that originl price? I asked the PR man for the buyer but he sid its a privte matter...

    Classic 1963 Ferrari 250 GTO sold for record $70 million | Fox News

    www.foxnews.com/auto/.../classic-1963-ferrari-250-gto-sold-for-record-70-million.html
    Jun 1, 2018 - A classic Ferrari has changed hands for a world record $70 million. The 1963 Ferrari 250 GTO, known as the Holy Grail model, won the Tour de ...
    Missing: illinois ‎man ‎spends
    1963 Ferrari 250 GTO sells for a record $70 million - CNN Style
    https://www.cnn.com/style/article/ferrari-250-gto-1963-record-sale/index.html
    1 day ago - Iconic 1963 Ferrari 250 GTO sells for a record $70 million ... drummer Nick Mason and British billionaire Lord Anthony Bamford -- the only man ever to own two 250 GTOs. ... Why investors are changing the way they spend ...
    Missing: illinois
    With a $70 million-plus sale price, this Ferrari 250 GTO is (probably ...
    autoweek.com/.../70-million-plus-sale-ferrari-250-gto-most-expensive-car-world-agai...
    3 days ago - How will the world change when the first collector car sells for $100 million? Will certain cars achieve a stature and clout previously held only by ...
    Missing: illinois ‎spends
    1963 Ferrari 250 GTO fetches a record price, propelling autos into fine ...
    https://www.marketwatch.com › Personal Finance
    17 hours ago - The staggering $70 million was reportedly paid by WeatherTech founder ... A 1963Ferrari 250 GTO recently sold in a private auction for a reported $70 ... founder of the Illinois-based WeatherTech custom floor mat maker.
     
  8. Christian.Fr

    Christian.Fr F1 World Champ

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    We never know...funds are in Switzerland.
    What do you think? :)
     
  9. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Ever heard of "copy and paste"???

    Marcel Massini
     
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  10. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 Veteran

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    But most media stories seem to derive from your earlier post ?
     
  11. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    I have no idea or control what media copies and pastes (or creates, writes and HYPES) from any website. This is a crazy world.
    And I certainly did NOT say a price.
    I was NOT involved in this transaction. Not at all.
    Guys, don't be naive and believe all the insane b.s. on most media!!!
    Thank you.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  12. bitzman

    bitzman Formula 3

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    I am not picking on Marcel, who is fine fellow. I just want to get it straight on the price paid, within a million or two. I cite another article, this one from CNBC which I think is a reputable news source.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/01/this-ferrari-just-became-the-most-expensive-car-ever-sold.html


    In this article from CBC.com they quote Marcel Massini. You would think that the reporter, Mr. Frank, quoting Marcel, would have asked (since that's what the story was about...) "Is that the correct price?" So what Massini is saying by his posting above is that all the sources that wrote about this sale so far are in error, each source copying the other...(.maybe Trump is right with his phrase fake news?) And by coincidence four years ago Robert Frank wrote about a previous 250GTO being offered on a German website , where the price was $63 million, saying it was a fake replica and quoting Massini. So it appears Mr. Frank loves writing about classic Ferrari prices and that he knows Marcel well enough to have interviewed him then as well. It's not like he is a reporter new to the subject of classic cars. I hope Mr. Frank can explain why he said that price....
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Here's the article, the first couple paragraphs....

    This Ferrari just became the most expensive car ever sold
    • A 1963 Ferrari GTO was sold for $70 million.
    • It is thought to be the highest price ever paid for a car.
    • Sources said the car was sold by a German collector to David MacNeil, the founder of WeatherTech.
    Robert Frank | @robtfrank
    Published 3:22 PM ET Fri, 1 June 2018 Updated 5:26 PM ET Fri, 1 June 2018 CNBC.com
    [​IMG]
    Source: Marcel Massini
    1963 Ferrari GTO


    A 1963 Ferrari just sold for $70 million, believed to be the highest price ever paid for a car, according to sources.

    The 1963 Ferrari GTO — one of only 36 that were made — was sold in a private deal, according to Marcel Massini, the world's top collectible Ferrari expert. Sources said the car was sold by a German collector to David MacNeil, the founder of WeatherTech, the maker of car floor mats.

    Previously the highest price for a car was $52 million, paid for another 1963 Ferrari GTO in 2013...."
    (The story goes on...)
     
  13. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle F1 Rookie
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    Ever known a journalist who would let something as trivial as lack of hard evidence get in the way of a good story?:D
     
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  14. bitzman

    bitzman Formula 3

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    Being a reporter, came across that many times, but there's also obfuscation by automakers after the fact
    such as when I co-wrote a history of the development of the '05-06 Ford GT, they never revealed that, during development, they had a design clinic where owners of similar cars are invited to look at the clay model and opine. The original clay had a shorter nose (being more Audi R8 shaped from the windscreen forward) but the collective opinion must have been "I'm not buyin' it unless it looks like the old GT40" so they had to lengthen the nose and go back to aping the '60s shape even though aerodynamically the Audi shape was probably more efficient. So they hid that bump in the road to development to make a "purer" story that the final design was the original design the whole time.
     
  15. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    That story was nonsense too.
     
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  16. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    If true, I'm glad they did it that way. I never thought the R8 was a good looking car (it looks neutral to me, but not bad). It would've been terrible with that nose.
     
  17. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #342 miurasv, Jun 8, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2018
    That somebody says they paid a certain amount for something doesn't make it true. No proof of the amount paid for 4153GT has been forthcoming, or for any of the preceding GTO sales. The $38,115,000 that Monteverde paid for 250 GTO 3851 is still the highest verifiable amount paid by being sold at public auction.

    If someone wants to make a big story, let's see the proof of the story, otherwise it's a load of wind.
     
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  18. MalteseVA

    MalteseVA Karting

    Oct 7, 2008
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    There was a confidentiality agreement as part of the sale. I don't think the real amount will ever be posted on Fchat or any articles
     
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  19. bitzman

    bitzman Formula 3

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    True. The $38 million is documented. But I think those who refuse to reveal the price paid for a classic are trying to
    have it both ways--they want the publicity generated that they own the car; they want the "new base price" of what they bought to be widely known in case they ever have to re-sell, but then they turn around and say "but nobody can know the price." You would think US customs would be interested in the price, though I don't know if a 50-plus year old used car is subject to a tax on entry into the U.S. At any rate, I still can't believe of all those august journalists that wrote about it, not a one of them has a statement from the brokers or the buyer on the price. In real estate, I can drive by a home at speed, look up an address on my phone and say "oh, let's see what 493. N. Roxbury sold for " and in seconds find out what it sold for when, and what the assessed value is now. It's too bad in classic car field there is so much obfuscation.
     
  20. bitzman

    bitzman Formula 3

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    Going back to the short nose '05-'06 Ford GT clay model, there's a picture of it in a book called FordGT40 and the New Ford GT, I'll print it here later (I own the picture). As far as the design clinic, don't have anybody admitting to the fact there was one, but there had to be to force a design change. I once went to a design clinic , invited because I was a Ferrari owner. It was for some Jag that became the XJS, they had a fully dressed out (chrome, paint, etc. but maybe no interior) Jag mockup and four real cars from competitive makes and the clay model. They had a questionnaire running several pages and kept trying to catch you being inconsistent, like circle around to "which car do you like the nose of better? but rephrasing it each time. Free milk and cookies and I think they gave out cash, maybe $75. I think these are useful, but not being in design I don't know if every automaker has them.
     
  21. srslusso

    srslusso Formula Junior
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    Does it really matter to anyone what David McNeil paid for the GTO? He is a great guy made a lot of money by making a superior product in the the USA and deserves to spend whatever it takes to buy a car. He will enjoy it drive it probably to FCA events as well as exclusive GTO owners runs.
    Maybe he can write it off as advertising for the publicity it generates for Weather Tech who cares David has 2race driving sons ,just added support of Laguna Seca by paying for naming rights, supports major racing in a big way , stop bugging him and Marcel about the price . Ps I have driven or ridden in several GTOs over the years and they are much more enjoyable then a LM and in my case the most desirable cars on the road.....
     
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  22. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    It doesn't really matter what David MacNeil in particular paid for the GTO but it's only natural that people who are passionate about Ferrari are highly interested when such a huge amount is alleged to have been paid for one of the most desirable classic examples. MacNeil sounds like a real F fan and congratulations to him, who I'm sure happily paid whatever he paid. Congratulations to Christian Glaesel too, and all involved in the sale.
     
  23. bitzman

    bitzman Formula 3

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  24. bitzman

    bitzman Formula 3

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    SRSLusso is right--it shouldn't matter and he has an obvious eye for the best of the best. But what irks me is that several reporters quoted an authority on the car who didn't correct their mis-impression of the price and now are called cut-and-pasters. It is much less significant story without the price. By the way just to show how much I like the GTO, here's a painting I made of the same car using for reference a shot done in Europe (sent by the photographer on request) I'm thinking of framing it over my fireplace, maybe a whole series of GTOs...
    View attachment 3749853
     

    Attached Files:

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  25. MalteseVA

    MalteseVA Karting

    Oct 7, 2008
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    a family trust owned the GTO, not just Christian. he was one of the family members
     
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