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FERRARI 288 GTO

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by kizdan, May 18, 2007.

  1. dcmetro

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  4. 275GTB

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    Joe always has a beautiful display in the corner window, just 5 minutes walk from my house so i am lucky to see it every day driving past, pleased to say the rain has stopped and the sun is shining today.
     
  5. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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  7. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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  8. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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  9. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Correct.
    Sportgarage Graber AG of Wichtrach (near Berne), Switzerland, in their glory days.

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  10. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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  12. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    Maybe why the two cars were not so different? ;)

    Those are official Italian Republic Motor Department (DGM) documents, they were not Ferrari made: they were written by Italian authorities and checked on a track and on the engine power test device with the real car and real engine.

    Ferrari extended the original 308 GTB homologation DGM No. 15346 up to the 328 GTB and GTB turbo variants, as the cars were all variants of the original 1975 model, the 308 GTB F106AB.

    They already homogated a turbo variant of the 308 GTB two years before, the 208 GTB turbo in 1982 (F106AB/T): in 1984 they did it again with the GTO, that originated another variant, the F106AB/G.

    F40 could not be a 308 GTB homologation extension, as it was too different: it had another homologation number, the DGM No. 52501




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  13. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    The 308 and the 288 GTO could not be more materially different to anyone who actually has experience with both cars, besides the expected passing resemblance both being Ferraris from the same era, they are chalk & cheese, night & day, completely different in terms of body, chassis, mechanicals, gearbox and engine, with performance in a different league also.

    We've had this conversation before, and the conclusion is evident in a tangible mechanical & cosmetic form for all to see, it's why the much rarer 288 GTO is worth more than 10 times more than a 308.

    As I posted before, what Ferrari did was very clever (read: deceptive) as regards it's Italian Transportation Homologation procedures, using an extension of the original Homologation of December the 20th 1975, for a completely different car! This was in keeping with automotive practices of the period, mandated by economics and production logistics in order to minimize costs.
     
  14. joe sackey

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  15. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    #13913 Albert-LP, Oct 26, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
    This is your opinion, but not mine and, above all, nor the Italian Authorities too: they were the only ones that could decide if the car was a new model or just an upgrade. They allowed to consider the 288 GTO as a 308 upgrade as the car is clearly a 308 evolution: same glasses (same front and rear windshield: means the car body is an evolution of the 308 body, or they wouldn't fit), same crankcase and crankshaft (means the engine is only an evolution of the 308 one, as everyone knows) and the two cars shares many others parts as it's clearly visible. Yes, the engine was rotated by 90 degrees and coupled with a new gearbox (that forced a wheelbase increase or it wouldn't have fitted the car): but this happened also with the Mondial 3.2 and the Mondial T. In the Mondial T the engine was increased in size (with even a different cranckshaft...), fitted with a brand new electronic injection (as it happened with the 288 GTO...) and coupled with a brand new gearbox (as it happened with the 288 GTO...). But it was always the Mondial and not a new model. The 288 GTO is a 308 "GTO" evolution, this is what story tells: the official name was 288 GTO (this is what Ferrari wrote to Italian authorities, as you see the name "288 GTO" on the DGM official plate of the car), but for commercial use it was changed in GTO just to hide a bit the fact the car was 308 derived and not a new car.

    This is what story tells.

    Ciao

    PS
    The 308 GTB Millechiodi was from 1977: a 308 with widened tracks and wheel arches, with a bigger rear spoiler. It reminds me something... ;)
     
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  16. PAUL500

    PAUL500 Formula 3

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    The 288 is an evolved derivative of the 308, their windscreens are interchangeable, as are many other components such as side glass and frames, the doors are dimensionally the same just pumped out sideways, same dash structure etc etc.

    Engine wise, the bare block of a 308 could even be used in a 288 engine,

    In fact many of these even more evolved components then went into the F40. There is a direct lineage, this stopped at the F40. The 348 is the first wholly new rear engined v8 from that point forward chassis wise, but even the engine from that car evolved from the 308, and used the same wheelbase as the F40 as its starting point.
     
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  17. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    It's actually not just my opinion, but the opinion of at least 270 GTO owners, plus the entire Ferrari market which values the 288 GTO at @ 30 times (I checked and corrected the value disparity) more than the value of a 308, because of the tangible structural, mechanical & cosmetic differences, and production intent.
     
  18. Albert-LP

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    #13916 Albert-LP, Oct 27, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2020
    Everyone can think what he wants, but this doesn't mean he is right. The 288 GTO is a great and very well done 308 GTB evolution, focused for racing. That's what the story says and it's a fact, certified by Italian Motor Department and as showed on official documents and plates, not my opinion: we are not talking about values, we are talking about the story.

    And the story tells another thing.

    There are not "tangible structural differences" between the 308 GTB and 288 GTO, as the DGM Homologation is the same (No. 15346). Maybe you don't know that the 308 GTS (yes!!) has a different DGM Homologation number (No.17525) as here there are "tangible structural differences" between 308 GTB and 308 GTS: Italian Motor Department has good technicians.
    Means that the "tangible structural differences" between 308 GTB and 288 GTO are less than those between 308 GTB and 308 GTS
     
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  19. Ferrari 308 GTB

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    Basically its a 308 GTB on steroids with a couple of Japanese turbo's bolted on,if they had made 10000 of them they would of course command a very different price. As often with Ferrari its a numbers game.Nice machine though;)
     
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  20. Albert-LP

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    The 288 GTO is much more than that, of course, but it's a wide improvement of the 308 GTB. The 288 GTO engine was based on the 308 QV F105A engine that was under development at the same time
     
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  21. Marcel Massini

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    IGM stands for the Italian Ispettorato Generale Motorizzazione Civile e T. C.
    The IGM numbers are listed on the official Italian homologation papers.
    IGM numbers later became DGM numbers (Direzione Generale Motorizzazione).
    IGM/DGM number points to a NATIONAL (ITALIAN ONLY!!) type approval paper and therefore cars that were built for export usually did NOT necessarily have that number at all.

    Marcel Massini

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  22. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I understand what you are saying, but, your modus operandi appears to be attempting to re-write Ferrari history according to your own often flawed perspective, and this is what makes me feel this is yet another one of your controversial stories, of which there have been a few.

    For example, as we recall, you made a number of erroneous color and ownership claims about 288 GTO 47649, most of which were refuted by Marcel Massini, and the rest which you recanted or were simply unable to prove.

    Later you claimed the project car in Texas had a 288 GTO prototype-preproduction engine and gearbox, when asked if you have Ferrari SpA documentation confirming the engine & gearbox's claimed prototype status, no corroborative answer was forthcoming.

    So perhaps I can be forgiven for my skepticism, and whilst respecting that you have your opinion, it has no bearing on mine that the 308 and the 288 are very different and the fact that they share DGM numbers was simply a function of automotive practices of the period mandated by economics & production logistics in order to minimize costs. We know these practices occurred in Italian car factories of the era.
     
  23. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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  24. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    At the Coys International Historic Festival Silverstone, taken by Gary Walton.

    As of 2020 I believe this GTO is still on this plate, is taxed and MOT'd and has covered just under 13,000 km at its last MOT in 2019.

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  25. Albert-LP

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    You force me to recall you that you wrote your book about GTO (at page 34 ) "the new engine had no relationship with the exhisting 308 engine".
    How can it be, if the cranckshaft is the same? Part no. 128794: this is a fact and not an opinion.


    I didn't any mistake about that car, as what I wrote was told me by the only one that knows the full story: Mario Vincenzi, Ferrari Motor at Modena, who "produced" that car after it was scrapped in a Ferrari yard. You can read it on my book what he tells. If you think the story is wrong, take the phone and call him.

    Don't worry, the owner came here and we both went to speak in Maranello with the only ones who knows and can speak about that. All the story will stay private and won't be shared here.

    Then please explain why 308 GTB and 308 GTS don't share the same DGM numbers.
     
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  26. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    Here above taken from your book, Joe: page 34. "the new unit had no relationship with the existing 308 engine" and "developed from scratch".

    And then here below the cranckshaft of my 208 GTB turbo engine F106D No. 0288 (yes, my engine number is 0288, what a funny thing, isn't it?) pictured by Francesco Reggiani at Toni Auto shop in Maranello during the car restore. You will find that picture (and many others of my 208 turbo engine) also on the book "Ferrari Engines", Haynes: that's Ferrari part no. 128794. It fits all 308, all 208 and the 288: all cars that share the same cranckcase, of course.

    ciao

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  27. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    Here you are a development engine of the 288 GTO, with "F105B" on the crankcase: I remember that the F105A was the 308 QV engine (1982) and the F105C was the 328 engine (1985).
    There is another one for sale in Italy, always with "F105" impressed in the crankcase. Only development engines, probably "test room only", but they show where the 288 GTO engine comes from.

    This is how story was: I don't want to revise the story, but just tell what it was.

    https://collectorstudio.com/product/1985-ferrari-288-gto-engine/


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