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FERRARI 330 GT series 1 - 1964 fpr sale

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Albert-LP, May 5, 2021.

  1. Fennicus

    Fennicus Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2015
    568
    Helsinki, Finland
    Full Name:
    Pekka T.
    FWIW I have seen other European “titles” or VO5’s, registration papers where the date syntax 01/01/XX has been used when the original first registration date has been lost.

    In some cases they have used the opposite, latest possible date when the year is known, i. e. 31/12/XX.

    But not uncommon to see on old cars a first registration date of 01/01/65 when the officials have known it was registered in 1965. After all they had to put some data into the system in order to be able to reissue a registration. (ACI/PRAO/VO5, etc.)

    I have seen cars that were made in 1950 with an US title saying the car was a “1946”. The local office would believe it and register as such if no-one wanted to find out the truth.

    I am sure all the registration offices in Italy, Finland, France and Germany were all closed on New Years Day 1965 just like every other year on that Holiday.

    That’s all, thank you gentlemen.
     
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  3. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    16,551
    FIVA ID Cards automatically expire after 10 (ten) years.
    This one expired in 2006, only fifteen years ago.

    Marcel Massini
     
  4. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    Alberto
    This is possible of course: what you write makes sense
     
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  5. TTR

    TTR F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 29, 2007
    3,181
    Riverside, CA
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    Timo
    In U.S. or specifically in California, for example, government issued documents like the (ownership) title or (annual) road use registration, etc. often have inaccurate model year designations as they usually refer to when a given vehicle was first sold and or registered, not when it was made or imported, etc.

    I know and have seen Daytonas that were built/finished in 1972, imported to U.S. in 1973, but weren’t sold as new or registered until 1974 and that is what all their subsequent government or insurance documents show as a year model.

    I’ve even heard of ‘73 (last year of their production) Daytonas that are registered as ‘76 since they remained unsold until then..
     
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  6. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    6,918
    southwest germany
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    romano schwabel
    when you register a used car in germany first time and you not know the date of first registration they put always in 1st of july
     
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  8. Ronnie88

    Ronnie88 Rookie

    Mar 12, 2010
    1

    @Marcel Massini - Hello, I am interested in learning more about my 1973 Ferrari Dino 246gts. Can you contact me directly to discuss how you manage the reports? I appreciate it. Ronnie da Motta
     
  9. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    6,918
    southwest germany
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    romano schwabel
    you think it is ok here to ask in your first post about help?
    you not even filled in your profile nor you introduced yourself a little
    you do so in real life the same?
     
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  10. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    Sep 1, 2010
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    Alberto
    Yes, you are right. First registration date of 6947 is still unknown: I called ACI this morning and they confirmed that "January 1" was usually the date they wrote when they weren't sure of the day nor of the month but only of the year. The first registration of 6947 is still unknown, but it's between January 1, 1965, and June 05, 1965: on June 05, 1965 there was the PRA official registration, that (at those times) usually was one or two months later than the first registration, that (probably) was on April or May 1965.

    Ciao
     
  11. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
    8,086
    Cardiff, UK
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    Steven Robertson
    #34 miurasv, May 7, 2021
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
    What you say I'm sure is correct. However, I don't know about other countries, but in the UK, many brand new cars were registered for, and with first use on New Year's Day, with the 1st of January of whatever year indicated on the V5 registration document, even though the Driver & Vehicle Licencing Centre would have been closed on that day. The registration paperwork would have been processed on a different day. Therefore, the fact that a car has a registration document dated the 1st of January, it does not necessarily mean at all that the exact original date of first registration, within whatever year, was not known.
     
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  13. 330gt

    330gt Formula 3

    Nov 12, 2004
    1,794
    Seattle, WA
    Full Name:
    Kerry Chesbro
    Ferrari did not have a 'model' year until the US started requiring DOT and EPA certifications starting around 1968.

    Cars prior to that were privately imported into the US frequently ended up with a year of the last year of production for that model. I assume that the reasoning when getting it titled at the state DMV was that the newer the car, the more it was worth.
     
  14. afwrench

    afwrench Formula Junior

    Nov 24, 2004
    562
    NY
    Full Name:
    Mike
    This community is most fortunate to have Mr.Massini to turn to.His information is viewed as official by virtually all. While anyone can make a mistake, to question his documentation while within anyone's right it should be done with at least a modicum of humility. That did not appear to be the case here. Mike
     
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  15. GIOTTO

    GIOTTO F1 Rookie
    Consultant

    Dec 30, 2006
    2,966
    FRANCE
    So, Marcel was right ?
     
  16. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    Sep 1, 2010
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    #38 Albert-LP, May 8, 2021
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
    I perfectly know (...and since several years) that Massini can't be wrong: he has access to so many Ferrari official documents (or copies of them, like the ones that he posted in this thread) that allow him to know almost everything about many old Ferrari cars (expecially up to early eighties, I was told). So he only needs (usually) the chassis number and giving a look in his huge database to know a lot of thing about that chassis number.

    I also knew very well that if he wrote that "6947 was completed 5 May 1965. Engine #968. Gearbox #10/65. Rear axle #14/65. New via Crepaldi to Sig. Roccasecca in Novara.
    On 9 June 1969 the odometer was showing 52'565 kms." it had to be true because he very likely read those info on official Ferrari documents like the ones that he later posted: there weren't many other possibilities than that.

    ASI and FIVA very likely in 1992 and 1996 couldn't have access to those confidential Ferrari documents, so they based the stated "1964" production year on ACI sheet, that showed January 1, 1965 as registration date. This was obvious to me one second later after Massini posted all those 330 GT 6947 data: he usually writes only correct data here, he has access to tons of Ferrari official documents (or copy of them, this sincerely I don't know) so also the 6947 data he wrote were very likely correct.

    I know very well that those documents can add value to the car, so I wanted to see them before asking Ferrari Classiche to have an official copy, as Ferrari charges a lot of money to give you anything. It would have been nice to see what they showed, I mean if they worth the money to pay. So I forced him to post what he had: unfortunately (for me) he posted only the ones of other cars, so I still don't know which documents Ferrari exactly has about 6947.

    No more, no less.

    ciao
     
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  17. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
    8,086
    Cardiff, UK
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    Steven Robertson
    @Albert-LP

    I don't quite understand the disrespectful tone of your posts directed at Marcel Massini. He only tried to help you with his responses giving you the correct dates for your car.

    Marcel Massini is rightly regarded as an eminence grise of Ferrari motor cars from ALL eras, not just classic Ferraris. What some people do not appreciate are his life long efforts, the time he has spent and the huge monetary expense he has gone to to gain that vast knowledge.

    It is much easier to communicate in these days of email and the internet, but I know for a fact that from a young age Marcel Massini's passion for Ferrari cars has compelled him to travel the world and write to people all over the world by snail mail. It could take weeks to get a response, and that's if you actually got a response. Just pause for a moment and think about that. Think also about in pre internet days how would you even know who to write to, and further obtain their address.

    While this is not directed at you in particular, it annoys me to see people posting here requesting information on particular cars, when it is fully known that the request is directed only at Marcel Massini. Do these people think he was born with the knowledge he has or that he himself got that knowledge for free?

    As I have said previously, your car seems to be a very beautiful, original example and in very long term ownership. I would suggest to professionally engage the services of Marcel Massini to get the full known history of the car, which will best help you sell it by making it much easier for someone to buy it.
     
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  18. BIRA

    BIRA Formula Junior

    Jun 15, 2007
    908
    #40 BIRA, May 9, 2021
    Last edited: May 9, 2021
    There are 3 different issues here:
    1. What Ferrari has as info on a 1965
    car. Likely very little they can share, except for the certification they can issue at a price.
    2. What Marcel has. Well better talk to him directly and ask what and how much. Marcel is not know to extract ransoms from info, he is a straightforward guy with a lot of knowledge and lot of time and money invested in research. So you can agree or disagree to buy what he has to offer but trying to find an oblique way to get it for free or without asking the question is not that most efficient way , at least with him.
    3. The way to advertise cars.
    MM corrected for the whole community that the car was not a 1964 ( something
    that anyone looking at database and checking chassis numbers would have found as they are roughly in sequential orders..) and that the car was not a low mileage car ( although low mileage compared to a million miles Volvo!).
    Having bought more than 80 cars including 20 Ferrari in my life we are used to misrepresentation or enthusiastic sales pitch. This does not make it a bad car, but sharing knowledge with the commmunity regarding
     
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  19. BIRA

    BIRA Formula Junior

    Jun 15, 2007
    908
    Went off before the end.

    sharing knowledge with the community about the cars that are offered on the community website ( or brought to the attention of the community ) is a nice intention and a service to the community.
    If the car is sold through unknown dealer of untested reliability , this is something else and caveat emptor.
    So we should all be grateful to MM for his contribution and not try to outsmart him ( which I guess on Ferrari is a little bit difficult..).
     
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  20. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    Sep 1, 2010
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    #42 Albert-LP, May 9, 2021
    Last edited: May 9, 2021


    Yes, Steven and Bira: you are right, I have to apologize with you and with the other forum members for being too much rough at the beginning of this discussion. I had to be more polite, as I wasn't at all. I'm writing here since eleven years and I'm always very kind and polite with everybody: I'm sorry, but I can't stand Massini. This is the "problem" I have. I had in the past some very bad discussions with him in other forum sections: no doubt about he is one of the best Ferrari expert in the world (I know this very well), but I still can't stand him and we won't ever be friend. This is something that I "feel" and will stay forever. But this doesn't mean that you can't do some business with who you don' like: business is business.

    Then I have to add this: I don't know at all the 330 GT model nor I know very well Ferrari models before 1975. I'm a 308 GTB (and sons) expert and no more. The 330 GT I advertised is not my property (I just added that in the sale ad as I don't want to hide anything): The owner, Aldo G., is a very close friend of mine since 40 years and even was my wedding witness: a sort of "brother", so I gifted him my possibility to place a car advertise here. If anyone need info, I will only put him in contact with the owner, and no more: I'm not a broker, nor a dealer and so on (no commission here...) and I don't know this model. I only know the car since his family (his mother) got it, in 1989, and I was a passenger on that car several times, so I consider this 330 GT a bit "mine" too.

    This said, I my thinking was that Ferrari had everything about that car so I told my friend Aldo to ask Ferrari for some original documents about the car, that are always a good thing when you want to sell your vintage Ferrari.

    Now you are telling me that Massini has even better info about that car than Factory itself: I would like my friend Aldo G. had the assembly sheet like the one Massini posted, and I think Ferrari can provide it.

    But if you think that Massini has them and even more, I car suggets my friend to ask him: why not. Business is business, as I alreay wrote. I didn't know that he was a consultant that could supply also official documents and not only pictures and owner's history.

    Thank you both (and the others): I really appreciate what you wrote, as I'm starting learning something about 330 GT family, as I didn't even know there was an "intermediate" series. Basically I just put an ad with the documents my friend gave me, so I only know what I read on them and what I saw with my eyes since 1989. I have no idea about what happened before: the only thing I can state without any doubt is that the car still is like it was 30 years ago.

    ciao
     
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  21. Smiles

    Smiles Moderator
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    Nov 20, 2003
    15,090
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    Alberto,

    Wasn’t the car restored in 1992?

    Matt
     
  22. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    #44 Albert-LP, May 9, 2021
    Last edited: May 9, 2021
    yes, 29 years ago. But didn't change color or anything since 1989, when it arrived at my friend home. It already was in good conditions, even if not as shining as it was since 1992.

    "Low miles" since I know the car: from 1989.

    As said, no Idea about what happened before.
     
  23. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    16,551
    #45 Marcel Massini, May 9, 2021
    Last edited: May 9, 2021
    How "low" are the miles today?

    Marcel Massini
     
  24. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    Sep 1, 2010
    7,001
    around Modena, Italy
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    Alberto
    Marcel, only add "please" to your question and I will be very pleased to answer you.

    ciao
     
  25. afwrench

    afwrench Formula Junior

    Nov 24, 2004
    562
    NY
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Alberto, at this point you seem only interested in childish and argumentative back and forth.Why not end this conversation and do us all a favor.Mike
     
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  26. AtSomePoint

    AtSomePoint Karting

    Jun 20, 2009
    66
    Miami Beach
    Full Name:
    Bill
    Agreed. This should have never made it out of the For Sale (Ferrari) section where it was initially posted.

    Maybe the mod(s) can either delete this thread or merge it with the original in the FS section.
     
  27. Smiles

    Smiles Moderator
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    Nov 20, 2003
    15,090
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    Matt F
    Our Moderator policy is to let users live with what they choose to post.

    We’re not paid to save users from themselves. In fact, we’re not paid at all!

    Matt
     
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  28. christc

    christc Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2013
    331
    Germany

    What an absurd way to ask for information here in this forum. It makes me really wonder that you try to trick someone like MM into giving you value information by posting like you do. I have great respect for how people including MM
    respond to this here. Fchat really does differ from most other forums I know. Therefor it is the only Ferrari forum I visit beside TYang. People are real enthusiasts, mostly matter of fact, treat others with respect, have hugh knowledge which they openly share if asked for in the right way. Why you do not just ask what you want and accept a no if you get it?
     
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