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Ferrari 330 GTO 4 litre Le Mans

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by desire308, Apr 20, 2012.

  1. Terry Godbout

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    Any explanation for why the serial number of 3673 seems to be out of order with other cars made during 1962. Was 3673 the only SWB Berlinetta made with a 4-liter engine?
     
  2. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #77 miurasv, Jun 15, 2019
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    Would have been a special order which would have taken longer to build.
     
  3. DWR46

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    Terry: 3673 is NOT a SWB Berlinetta with a 4-liter engine. It is a 400 Superamerica with SWB Berlinetta "style" bodywork
     
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  4. Terry Godbout

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    In any case, is it the only 400 SA with SWB Berlinetta “style” bodywork?
     
  5. Timmmmmmmmmmy

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    All of the America, Superamerica and Superfast range produced between the early 1950s and mid/ late 1960s were built to order and fully customisable. Yes the fact the Ferrari build papers show a production date of November 1962 would indicate that the special build with the unique Scaglietti SWB coachwork took til November and it rules out any use before that date. Equally possible is that the car was built as a GTO, was wrecked at the Nurburgring and either totally rebuilt with new documentation for sale with a November 1962 built date listed to make it saleable as an all new 400SA OR equally, an all new 400SA was built by November 1962 to replace a 330GTO that was a total wreck and for some random reason Ferrari used the same chassis #. Either way, Ferrari wouldn't have cared in 1962, so long as the much needed funds from another expensive car were earnt (and a unique 400SA with SWB coachwork would have been $25k or more which was an enormous amount for the time). And finally, while several 250GT Short Wheelbase wore Coupe Aerodynamico coachwork that was usually for the 400SA (6-7), this was the sole 400SA with 250GT Short Wheelbase coachwork.
     
  6. Terry Godbout

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    Thank you. A nice concise summary. Interesting car and such cars make me wonder what the Factory really knows about it. I do know the Berlinetta bodywork is not currently mounted on the chassis.
     
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  7. miurasv

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    Please could you share with us what else you know about 3673, such as where it is, what body it has mounted on it etc, etc. Thank you.
     
  8. Timmmmmmmmmmy

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    Steve, I am sure Terry will post in good time but posts #9 and #10 in this thread are what I believe are accurate and up to date. My understanding is that both versions of #3673 are with the same owner as the Chinetti 250P #0812, he seems not to mind the colourful history of these cars.
     
  9. miurasv

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    #84 miurasv, Jun 23, 2019
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    Timothy: Posts 9 and 10 conflict with each other. Terry did not reply after. Also, have you actually taken any notice of what PPP, Dyke and Nathan have posted in this thread about 3765LM actually being the Nurburgring car, along with Cyril's picture of the damaged nose at the Nurburgring, that could explain why 3765LM had a different nose treatment between the 1962 races at the Nurburgring and Le Mans?
     
  10. Timmmmmmmmmmy

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    Yes and I absolutely respect those posters due to their experience with various Ferraris and if Dyke and others have ever taught us anything is that Ferrari history is never simple, look at the wonderful posts on another 330GTO posted by Dyke. But if Bluemel/ Pourret and others can not give us a straight answer on what #3673SA began life as, I feel the situation remains unresolved. I don't even believe Ferrari knows for sure what happened with this car and have heard contradictory information from the Ferrari works records that leans towards proving #3765 raced at both events but still nothing to stop Ferrari having one written off 330GTO and building an entire new 400SA, which they then deemed the same serial number and selling it as new, is there?
     
  11. miurasv

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    #86 miurasv, Jun 23, 2019
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    The Bluemel and Pourret 250 GTO book(s) was (were) written years ago and need updating. There was no 330 GTO written off at the Nurburgring in 1962 as you said was possible in a recent post. Forghieri has stated that Willy Mairesse crashed a 250 GTO on the Bologna Firenza Autostrada (see post 75), so it is very unlikely he crashed a 330 GTO here too, as has been stated in the past to justify the story of 3673SA originally being a GTO bodied car. Dyke never refers to these cars as 330 GTO. He has written facts about 3765LM, having been around it for years, and has stated that 4561SA has a Watts Linkage, with more info to come, but I don't know what posts regarding another 330 GTO he has written. Which 330 GTO are you referring to? There were only 2 330 engined cars with 250 GTO style bodywork.
     
  12. Timmmmmmmmmmy

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    I am not going to claim to be some expert beyond compare and claim knowledge that could be questionable. My previous posts were only intended to lay out the potential explanations for what may have happened and people can go and do their own research and make their minds up. I for one am leaning towards #3673SA being a 400SA/ SWB one off and #3765LM being the car raced at both the Nurburgring and Le Mans but anything proof wise is going to fall short of absolute. The current owner of #3673SA could take his car(s) to Classiche and with enough cash they would possibly give it their seal of approval ala Violatti's #0818. Marcel might have enough detail, photographic proof etc. on the two to lay out a case that would be convincing but short of being there it might still be inadequate. Lets put it another way, when production of Scaglietti SWB bodies was 1 - 2 per day, can we say that their being responsible for clothing #3673SA is the only reason it might have been produced many months after the surrounding serial numbers? because even if this is discounted as a third 4 litre GTO/ LM Berlinetta or whatever, I wouldn't discount some prior life, maybe as a works muletto and maybe the 9 month lag in production was simply the buyer changing his mind...... Speaking of which I do like to keep an open mind because as with the revised history for #0816 as the double Le Mans winner, we can always be surprised.
     
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  13. DWR46

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    I hesitate to even approach this subject again, as all that happens is more people without real knowledge of the cars confuse things more than ever. Here are some FACTS about 3673.
    1. The engine as completed on October 10, 1962 was 100% stock 400SA. Street cams, 8.8 to 1 compression and 40DCL/6 carbs. It's internal block number of 54 fits into the sequence of 400SA's completed in the Fall of 1962.
    2. The gearbox is a Tipo 538 (400SA) unit, without overdrive, completed on October 22, 1962. It's Internal Number of 25 fits into the normal sequence of 400SA's completed in the fall of 1962. It is NOT a competition unit like 3765 (Tipo 538/566).
    3. The rear axle assembly is a stock 400SA unit (Tipo 538). It has NO limited-slip differential. It was completed on October 10, 1962. It is NOT a competition unit like 3765 (Tipo 539/807). It does NOT have watts linkage.
    4. The chassis is a normal 400SA unit (Tipo 538), NOT a competition chassis like 3765 (Tipo 539/566). it does have a 2400mm wheelbase. It uses standard 400SA propshaft, rear hubs, steering box (slow 20 to 1 ratio) (3765 is 17 to 1), radiator, wet sump (3765 is dry sump), fuel tank, front springs, and power brakes (never found on Comp cars of the period). The "Carrozzeria" section is noted as follows: FARINA (crossed out), SCAGLIETTI SA , then hand written is the word Berlinetta. The body was ordered on April 21, 1962. I do not have the body completion date.
     
  14. miurasv

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    #89 miurasv, Jun 24, 2019
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    Timmmmmmmmmmy and readplays like this.
  15. Timmmmmmmmmmy

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    What a brilliant post, thankyou. Here is another question, in the fact #4 you note that the body was ordered in April and I note that the engine and transmission were built in October. Is that 6 months lag normal or unusual and do you have any thoughts on why that might be unusual?
     
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  16. DWR46

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    Timmy: Your question is the key to the mystery. It was somewhat uncommon for that much time to go by between ordering the bodywork and car completion, but not totally unusual. I am sure a number of small items had to be addressed to construct a 400SA with a SWB "style" body. The fact the body was first noted as a Farina body, and then changed to Scaglietti possibly indicates a change of direction in the middle of construction. It all could be that simple, in that somebody changed their mind or the factory "rerouted" the construction and sale of the car at some point. Also, in 1962, Scaglietti was a busy place, with GTO's, SWB Berlinettas and Californias being constructed all at the same time. A "special" commission would naturally have taken a "backseat" to normal body builds, thus lengthening the process.
     
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