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Ferrari 330 P3/4 (0846) and Ferrari 412 P (0844)

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Bob Zambelli, Nov 17, 2016.

  1. Bob Zambelli

    Bob Zambelli F1 Rookie
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    I know very little about Ferraris of this era.

    What are the differences in these two cars?

    Bob Z.
     
  2. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    engine spec (Lucas MFI / Weber ), bodywork
     
  3. Bob Zambelli

    Bob Zambelli F1 Rookie
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    OK, wise guy - I should have said RACING Ferraris.

    Happy now?
     
  4. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    My post was obviously a poor attempt at humour and I have removed it. It just tickled me that you had said you know very little about Ferraris from this era yet you know more than most of us here having owned a Ferrari from this period for 41 years, driven 140,000 miles in it, maintained it yourself and rebuilt it. I am sorry.
     
  5. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #5 miurasv, Apr 19, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Both these cars started life as works 330 P3s in 1966: 0844 as a Berlinetta and 0846 as a Spyder.

    0846 was the first car built and was the Official Press car.

    1966 Basic 330 P3 Specification of 0844 and 0846:

    Chassis: Tipo 593. Tubular steel stiffened with riveted aluminium sheet as well as using the engine as a semi stressed member.

    Engine: Tipo 216B. 4 litre, 4 cam V12 with 24 valves and Lucas Indirect Fuel Injection producing 420 BHP. Dry sump.

    Gearbox = Ferrari Tipo 593.

    Wheels: Tipo 593. Campagnolo Disc Magnesium square hole: 8.5”x15” at front and 9.5”x15” at rear.

    Brakes: Tipo 593 callipers at front and Tipo 581 inboard callipers attached to gearbox at rear.

    Wheelbase = 2400mm.

    Weight of 0844 = 730KG. 0846 = 720KG.

    330 P3 0844 won Monza and Spa in 1966. 330 P3 0846 had no wins.

    At the end of the season P3 0844 was converted into a customer 412P and then called P3/412P. 0846 was retained by Ferrari as a works car and used as the design basis for the new P4 and received many, but not all, of the P4 updates, hence it being called 330 P3/P4.

    0844 1967 Basic Specification and Main Changes as P3/412P:

    Chassis Tipo = Updated to 604/593.

    The engine used was the Tipo 241 which was derived from the 216B from the P3. Same size at 4.0 litres with 24 valves though the works Lucas Indirect Fuel Injection Induction system was replaced with 6 Twin Choke Weber carburettors. BHP = 410. P3 and 412P cars had projecting lug cylinder block engine mountings which extended to meet the chassis tubes at the side of the engine in addition to mounting points at the front and back of the engine.

    The Tipo 593 gearbox proved to be the Achilles heel of the P3 in the 1966 racing season. The Ferrari Tipo 603 gearboxes were not readily available at the start of the ’67 season so the rear of the chassis was modified to accept the ZF 5DS 25/1 gearbox. In doing this the wheelbase of the 412P cars increased from P3 2400mm to 412P 2412mm. By Le Mans 1967 all the 412P cars received the new Ferrari Tipo 603 gearboxes and the wheelbase reverted to 2400mm.

    Wheels: Tipo 593 P3 at start of season. Later in season wheels updated to Star type P4 style in same size as P3 = Tipo 604.

    Brake callipers and discs were P4 Tipo 603. Brakes now outboard at rear.

    Bodywork was updated to P4 style but not identical = Tipo 604/593.

    Weight = 815KG.

    P3/412 P 0844 had no wins in 1967 but came 3rd at the 24 Hours of Daytona behind 330 P4 0856 2nd and 330 P3/P4 0846 1st in the famous 1,2, 3 win for Ferrari.

    Later in 1967 0844 was converted to a 330 Can Am car with open bodywork.
    In private ownership in the 1990s it was reconfigured as a P3/412P.

    0846 1967 Basic Specification and Main Changes as 330 P3/P4.

    Chassis updated to Tipo 593/603.

    Engine was replaced with P4 Tipo 237 which was a completely redesigned 4.0 litre unit with 36 valves, 3 per cylinder (2 inlet, 1 exhaust) and a stiffened cylinder block to add rigidity to the chassis structure. Lucas Indirect Fuel Injection System was carried over from P3 though now between the two camshafts on each bank rather than centrally between the vee of the cylinders. Engine BHP = 450. Engine mountings on side of cylinder block were cross bolted and more flush with the block which necessitated for the chassis to have mounting points that extended to meet the block. The P3 chassis side engine mountings and supporting tubes were completely removed and replaced with tubes of different geometry/dimensions to meet the differing mounting points/coordinates of the new P4 engine.

    Gearbox updated to Ferrari Tipo 603 from the outset of 1967 season.

    Suspension = P4 Tipo 603.

    Brakes = P4 Tipo 603. Now outboard at rear. Did not get updated with the P4 adjustable bias system. Chassis tubes remain as P3 at front.

    Steering and Column Support uprated to P4 Tipo 603.

    Wheels = P4 Star shape Tipo 603 of wider width. 9.5”x15” at front. 12.5”x15” at rear.

    Radiator and Oil Cooler = P4 Tipo 603.

    Bodywork = Tipo 603/593. P4 style with front clip similar to 412P with 3 vents but with smooth cover like the P4 over the braking master cylinders of P3 type. Bottom of rear clam in line with door sill like the P3 and 412P cars and does not step up above the door sill line as the other P4 cars did.

    Wheelbase = 2400mm.

    Weight =782KG.

    330 P3/P4 0846 won the 1967 24 Hours of Daytona and was 1st at the Le Mans Test.

    After a fire caused by a flapping punctured tyre which damaged and ignited the fuel tanks at Le Mans 1967 where the car burned, the chassis was discarded to the Ferrari scrap yard due to its previous accident history and damage sustained. The number 0846 was cancelled by Mother Ferrari. Ferrari 330 P3/P4 #0846 no longer exists.
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  6. Juan-Manuel Fantango

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    #6 Juan-Manuel Fantango, Apr 19, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I doubt anyone has ever driven a GTC as far as he has, and don't forget the Alfa.


    Interestingly, here are some pictures another one of our great friends sent this weekend. Dr. Terry Clark of Clemson, SC.

    I think this is an FCA event, when people use to bring the cars out.
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  7. NürScud

    NürScud F1 Veteran

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    Great thread. Thank you.
     
  8. BoxerCrazy

    BoxerCrazy Formula Junior

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    some amazing pics in this thread, so good !!!!!
     
  9. tomgt

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    iirc 412P #0850
     
  10. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    As well as 410 BHP, P3/412P and 412P cars are also quoted as having 420 BHP.
     
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  11. 365GTC/4

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    Things of absolute beauty and function. Thanks for posting.
     
  12. dinogt4guy

    dinogt4guy F1 Rookie

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    I like the 250LM in the last pic! ;)
     
  13. tomgt

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  14. Terra

    Terra Formula 3
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    Notice an ENTIRE new front clip did NOT need to be fabricated when returning 0844 back to to its Berlinetta-spec. Because the express mandate was for as much of the car's ORIGINAL aluminium as possible to be retained during the entire process, great care and time were taken, etc.
     
  15. NürScud

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    !!
     
  16. ingegnere

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    #17 ingegnere, Jul 1, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  17. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    It is not a P3/4; those cars do not exist

    0856 is at FoS. P4
     
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  18. ingegnere

    ingegnere Formula 3
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    Stroll car then, yes?
     
  19. tomgt

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    yes
     
  20. polds

    polds Rookie

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    330 P3/P4 0846 won the 1967 24 Hours of Daytona and was 1st at the Le Mans Test.

    After a fire caused by a flapping punctured tyre which damaged and ignited the fuel tanks at Le Mans 1967 where the car burned, the chassis was discarded to the Ferrari scrap yard due to its previous accident history and damage sustained.


    The number 0846 was cancelled by Mother Ferrari. Ferrari 330 P3/P4 #0846 no longer exists





    That last paragraph generated an immature schoolboy chortle much like putting a whoopee cushion under the seat of my rather stiff godfearing English teacher in 1979!!
     
  21. RallyMaster

    RallyMaster Karting

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    Very nice and complete information on the 330 P3!
    On the pictures it says that chassis 0844 was at Monza 1000 km race, how do you be so sure of that?
     
  22. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    Were Ferrari more forthcoming when quoting their race engine outputs then they were with their roadcar quoted outputs? I have yet to see a Ferrari road engine of the 60s-80s dyno within 10% of their quoted output sans 288 and F40 engines.
     
  23. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    I have been looking for this info for a while. Thanks !!!
     
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