Ferrari 360 IMMO OFF finally a reality!

Discussion in '360/430' started by 360trev, Jul 3, 2018.

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  1. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    @DonJuan348 : I'll prioritize you to be one of the first to get it.

    By the way, this is exactly what started to happen to Dino's... He lives in Arizona and it was very much temperature dependant on whether it would start or not. Those immobilizers really are garbage. He just lost total confidence in the thing. Sometimes it would start others no chance.

    I'm due to get all the components so I can test a first pass install of a basic PKE (Passive Keyless Entry) module and it replaces the immobilizer unit completely. You plug one of these in and keep a small keyring on your keys with no buttons and it will activate/deactivate the replacement immobilizer. The great thing about this replacement is it costs less than $100 complete and comes with 2 deactivation keys (more can be learned). Once fitted its totally passive so there is literally nothing to do to use it, transparent to you. I'm also going to make it work with the power locks too before I ship out some test units to my beta testers ;)

    Watch this space...
     
  2. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    If I can help I will...
     
  3. DonJuan348

    DonJuan348 F1 Rookie
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    Thanks Trev ... I don't have confidence either . It just sits . Trying to get a flat bed in dodgy neighbourhood at 2am is a chore.
     
  4. one4torque

    one4torque Karting

    May 20, 2018
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    Put me on the list. My alarm started beeping like crazy after I just got to work this morning. Turned it off and locked the door manually. My troubleshoot begins.

    Great product idea... w a big need!
     
  5. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    The whole factory fit alarm and immobilizer are desperately out of date and the electronics are getting to the point of end of life now too. Mechanical Relays only last so long...

    A blaring alarm is pretty pointless these days, far better for YOU to get a notification or alarm siren appear directly on your smart phone then be able to hear inside the car, see the video and disable the engine or limit it to idle revs all from the comfort of your smartphone!
     
  6. gobble

    gobble Formula Junior

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    The datasheet for the relays in the immobilizer list a minimum mechanical endurance of 10 million operations and an electrical endurance of 200,000 operations. If you locked and unlocked your Ferrari every day Siemans says the relays could wear out after 274 years. Except for a flood car I've only seen one failure where the fobs or user error weren't the culprit. What you're doing does sound cool and techie though if someone wants another app gadget to play with.
     
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  8. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Gobble,
    Thanks for your contribution to this thead. You've done a fantastic service to the Ferrari community over the years.

    I know it says in the automotive relay datasheets they should last basically for ever but its never that cut and dry with mechanical bits.

    It says nothing about how they decay over the years with hot and cold cycles. I've seen many cars now with failed relays soldered on the PCBs and a common theme seems to be hotter climates accelerate their failure along with time. In fact I've had to replace at least 3 or 4 ECUs in my car over the years with faulty soldered on relays.

    I know manufacturers claim all sorts of things about longevity of components but they're always under very specific criteria and nobody guarantees mechanical relays over 10 years old let alone 20 years and I guarantee they never tested them for this kind of timeline.

    Even something as ominous as the variance of fluctuations in voltage regulation circuits could take their toll on the relays so another failing component could cause the relays to die earlier than otherwise would in a different application.

    Also Majority of cars in Europe are scrapped well before their 20th birthday!
     
  9. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Forgot to mention that if you open up your immobilizer PCB you'll see that Bosch also had a design flaw, there is indeed a voltage regulator which is designed to dissipate heat leaning against the outer case of the starter relay!!!

    I'm sure that's not going to help it's lifespan. Both Dino's and my units had the same exact problem, the legs where bent and it was touching the relay. I wonder if this caused it to fail prematurely??? Be interested to see if anyone elses has the same problem. I'm guessing they all do...
     
  10. DonJuan348

    DonJuan348 F1 Rookie
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    Will you be able to use aftermarket alarm if one chooses
     
  11. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Yes ofcourse.

    I'm just of the opinion (and that's all it is) that i would rather just know myself direct to my phone and watch a live stream to see what's happening.

    Most people ignore alarms anyway...
     
  12. gobble

    gobble Formula Junior

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    I just opened 3 up. One was touching, one was close, and the third was straight up.
     
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  13. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Talk about quality control
     
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  15. mello

    mello Formula 3
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    Post some pictures please.
     
  16. gobble

    gobble Formula Junior

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    The two things sticking up with holes in the top in post 38. The one on the right leans sometimes towards the relay.
     
  17. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
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    Most Euro cars may get scrapped before they are 20, but most Ferraris get restored and kept on the road. To put this kind of garbage in a Ferrari is criminal.

    I thought my situation was a rarity, but apparently this is becoming more common. The fact that I have extreme temps might be the reason for my early failure.

    Trev.... are doing that keyless entry on mine?

    Don't forget those worthless slow down lights!
     
  18. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Sadly Dino, these Bosch parts where used in the multi millions on cheap Fords, Fiats, gm's, Lancia's and so on so the development 'use case' was low cost above anything else as dictated by mainstream car makers who where not thinking about longer term longevity. As you said exotics tend to just get restored or written off for damage, not for age reasons.

    Frankly the quality control on these immobilizer units wasn't amazing and the soldering is truely awful in places. These immobilizers in the future will cause the classic collectors and restoration guys no end of heartache and cars will increasingly become unrelaible due to silly immobilizers. Imagine what its going to be like in another 10 or 20 years time when the parts are totally unobtainium? Cars will be scrapped for this as knowlege on how to defeat them will be lost!

    I'm happy to be playing my part in helping to keep these cars on the road and relevant. What's a revelation is just to be able to turn the key at any time and the car starts. Seems like a simple thing but the annoyance of having to blip the fob multiple times just to be in the right 'mode' to start the engine has grated me over the years and I'm so glad its gone.

    I've already done your drop in replacement ecu's but the keyless is going to be a little longer, I will forward that module later when I've ironed out all the kinks and done exhaustive testing on my own car. It will just plug and play... Haven't done the slow down light this time around, that will come in flash version 2... In fact I'm working on a way to do this via OBD for future easy upgrade. More as it comes :)
     
  19. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

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    Keyless is not important to my thinking as that can be a problem long-term, and after correcting one major headache who then needs another!

    Just getting rid of the immobilizer is the major thrust of this concept

    Mechanical relays are a nightmare. They are found in the soundcards of many TEAC/Tascam reel to reel tape units that have in the past 5 years come in to great demand. Similar problems occurring with these units as is happening to immobilizers. They fail and can't function between record and play back!

    Just thinking of the word "immobilizer" is scary, as that is what is exactly what is happening to many!

    Amazing that the concept of 360 Trev has come from the other side of the pond as has radar and a few other gold lined findings.

    Nice going indeed, 360 Trev.

    Don't get too fancy. Make it practical and functional.

    OBDII access would be fantastic.
     
  20. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
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    My car basically sat for 6 months, because I just couldn't trust it to start. It was very discouraging. What a worthless feature.
     
  21. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    I have already removed the immobilizer from the ignition computers but if I left it like that many insurance companies may not be happy even if the owners are. Therefore I am coming up with a low cost alternative thats easy to remove later on too (just a bit time consuming so its not easy to disable quickly in a theft attempt).

    I hate security that gets in the way of the legitimate users. For instance today I discovered to my complete SHOCK that on my immobilizer disabled car the car will literally start on the turn of the key without having to wait for the 'CHECK OK'. I honestly didn't expect that.

    I now believe that the CHECK OK was a quick hack added in to allow time for the MCU (Microcontroller/processor) to boot up on the immobilizer and then send the appropriate authorization messages across to the next immobilizer before it was then sent to the Ignition computer. So actually your just waiting for the immobilizers to boot up and do a message exchange!!! With immo off the car simply just starts at the turn of the key like any other car. No special procedure to learn.

    On the Keyless entry immobilizer I'm looking at implementing, it will have NO mechanical relays involved and will be cheap to replace. For example a replacement learnable deactivation card is less than $20 shipped to your door!
     
  22. mello

    mello Formula 3
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    I just want to make sure that I'm interpreting this correctly. If I jump into my 360 and crank the engine without waiting for the CHECK OK, it'll start?
     
  23. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Yes!
     
  24. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

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    "On the Keyless entry immobilizer I'm looking at implementing, it will have NO mechanical relays involved and will be cheap to replace. For example a replacement learnable deactivation card is less than $20 shipped to your door!"

    No doubt a great concept, but if you should break your leg and they have to shoot you and subsequently someone needs a replacement card, that person could be SOL!

    That's why I don't care about the keyless part; I am just interested in the nutsNbolts 21st century upgrade you are proposing.
     
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  25. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 Formula 3

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    Keep it really simple.....
     
  26. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

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    My exact point.

    If you immobilize the immobilizer too much then you can immobilize the driver!!
     
  27. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Hear you guys loud and clear.
     
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