Ferrari 360 IMMO OFF finally a reality! | Page 9 | FerrariChat

Ferrari 360 IMMO OFF finally a reality!

Discussion in '360/430' started by 360trev, Jul 3, 2018.

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  1. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    4,252
    Gibraltar
    Full Name:
    360trev
    Your most welcome!

    It is rapidly becoming clear that the failure of the H-Bridge circuit inside the 360s ignition ecu's is the number one cause of failed ecus. Almost all the ecus we've dissected have failed due to this problem. I'm certain this will be the problem the poster above has with his ecu.

    The internal circuit is used to control the Throttle Bodies and in my opinion its actually a design flaw. The ecu use low power PWM (pulse wave modulation) from the microcontroller into the H-Bridge chip. The pwm controls the throttle body indirectly via the H-Bridge IC with the larger currents required to drive the throttles at varying angles.

    Due to power required (upto 6 amps!) heat can damage the components which actually desolder themselves from the pcb, so you get intermittency based on temperature. Since the software is programmed to do a safety Check of the TBs during Check OK cycle you find the car unable to start and a ticking throttle body sound.

    Its the biggest threat to 360s longevity for future as the factory has ran out of many ecu variants now (and components required to build them end of lifed years ago) so those which are left are getting seriously expensive. Even used ones are almost all dried up.

    I'm working on an inexpensive little plug in widget to repair ALL these hundreds of failed ecus so everyone reading please don't throw them away!

    I'll be able to reflash your broken ecus to bypass control over PWM and use CAN to communicate the throttle position (which is how modern throttle bodies do it anyway) that way we can ignore the failed components and reprogram the software to use the CAN sent message instead. This will be dramatically cheaper than throwing perfectly good ecus away.

    Trev

    Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk
     
  2. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    May 25, 2019
    1,740
    Memphis, TN
    Full Name:
    John
    Seems like a potential solution to this issue could be the insertion of a power module at the throttle body to actually power the TB from the signal generated by the ECU. A simpler version might just have a circuit breaker that pops at 6 amps.

    Thoughts?
     
  3. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Oct 29, 2005
    4,252
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    360trev
    Unfortunately the pcm signal is directly connected internally inside the ecu to the h bridge chip which is die substrate and very difficult to work with. Its therefore substantially easier to use existing can bus to communicate the throttle information.

    Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk
     
  4. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    4,252
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    360trev
    As for prevention. I am already looking to add some additional new CEL codes which will kick in once adaption of Tb goes beyond a given threshold. This means its time to change the throttle body rather than risk the ecu!

    Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk
     
  5. Rodolphe wagner

    Jan 4, 2021
    4
    narbonne france
    Full Name:
    Rodolphe wagner
    Good evening eric355,
    Thank you very much for responding to me so quickly.
    - A year ago I replaced the left ECU with a used ECU. If I put the used ECU on the right the car does not start, if I put this used ECU on the left, the car starts, so I left it on the left. The car ran well for a year.
    - Now when the car is very hot, I have the right ECU (the other ECU) which fault (throttle flap which vibrates). so i bought a second hand ECU to replace it, the 3 ECUs i have have the same software version.
    - I would like to replace the right ECU that fails when the car is very hot with the new ECU that I bought used, but I need to do an IMMO OFF on the ECU.
    - How do you make an IMMO OFF? Which device do I need? What software do I need? I don't know anything about reprogramming, but I have a friend who maybe could do it for me, but I'm missing this information to ask him.
    thank you
     
  6. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    4,252
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    360trev
    The approach being discussed here isn't actually "immobilizer off" which is what I pioneered, it's "erasing the immobilizer pairing information" in the eeprom of the ecu. This makes the immobilizer re-pair itself with your existing immobilizer. It does not remove the immobilizer which is my strong advice as its not a very reliable part.

    I have written a tool which does eeprom reading and writing which uses a special mode of the processor to read and write the data and it is free.

    I will also include virginizing in SAK for free but if you are doing it by hand you also need to bear in mind that data is stored in multiple ecus that all need to be done correctly. Since if you do swapping of ecus indiscriminately without understanding what your doing your car will flag a mileage discrepancies if you ever intend to get it Classiche Certifed in the future. More information to follow

    Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk
     
  7. Rodolphe wagner

    Jan 4, 2021
    4
    narbonne france
    Full Name:
    Rodolphe wagner
    Good evening 360trev
    Thanks for the advice, indeed, either I remove the immo off or I clone the ECU that I bought used with the ECU which is still good.
    Could you give me this free reading and writing tool?
     
  8. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Oct 29, 2005
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    Yes, I will be releasing the full source code for it shortly. Full open source.

    Watch out for more information but heed the warnings on immobilizer off as I've seen failing immobilizers wreck havoc on other (now very expensive components) such as your dashboard and now unavailable indicator relay.

    Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk
     
    kes7u likes this.
  9. Rodolphe wagner

    Jan 4, 2021
    4
    narbonne france
    Full Name:
    Rodolphe wagner
    Thanks again, I'll keep you posted when I get the information.
    good night
     
  10. 3s-ge

    3s-ge Karting

    Jun 23, 2012
    163
    Full Name:
    Alex
    Hi Trev, can you tell me the rom addresses for turn off the temperature of the catalysts? 01004, 01005, 10024, 1001E....
     
  11. gtwhaley

    gtwhaley Karting

    Jan 10, 2011
    93
    Kentucky & Texas
    Full Name:
    Greg
    You guys don't follow Agile over there? ;)
     
  12. chriswildb

    chriswildb Rookie

    Mar 18, 2022
    1
    Full Name:
    chris wildberger
    hello 360trev
    maybe you can help me.. have read booth ecus and need immo off..
     

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  13. ghtzepjv

    ghtzepjv Rookie

    Jun 4, 2022
    1
    Full Name:
    joe
    hello iam from france sorry for my bad englich iam interessed for the immo off ferrari 360 modena please send me a mail [email protected]
     
  14. sass0

    sass0 Rookie

    Jan 17, 2023
    21
    Slovenia
    Full Name:
    Saso M
    Hey Trev,

    Have you maybe tried extracting the PIN code from the 0D60J in the immo? Since my immo has some water damage i will simply clone it, but since im fearing that the FOB is disconnected i would also like to get the PIN from the dump. Any experience?
     
  15. Dvdw

    Dvdw Rookie

    May 27, 2021
    7
    Hengelo
    Full Name:
    Daniël van de Weijer
    Hi Trev,

    Im busy here with a f360 challenge (no stradale but the racecar) of a client and the immobilliser started to act up. Ferrari had the great idea to still put the immo units in the racecar but without a key or keyfob or an alarm system. THe immobilisers normally shouldn't engage on the race car. But guess what on one of the cars it did and now I have no clue how to get it to run again. As the challenge cars came from factory without keys or keyfobs. Could you help me out with this.

    Thanks,

    Daniël
     
  16. sass0

    sass0 Rookie

    Jan 17, 2023
    21
    Slovenia
    Full Name:
    Saso M
    I think immo off has now been a reality for some time. Either you install en immo emulator or eliminate the immo all together. Depends on your wishes and essence of time :)
     
  17. Dvdw

    Dvdw Rookie

    May 27, 2021
    7
    Hengelo
    Full Name:
    Daniël van de Weijer
    yeah they're old ecu's by now so i guess there probably are several options now. But as this is a clients car that cost way to much time allready i'd rather ask someone like trev what i need so i can finish this car. And being able to program this ecu's myself (also mapping wise) would be nice as I have several challenge cars in the workshop regularly.
     
    Frabello72 likes this.
  18. sass0

    sass0 Rookie

    Jan 17, 2023
    21
    Slovenia
    Full Name:
    Saso M
    Nice! Any chance of you sharing the dump from a Challenge? ☺️
     
  19. Dvdw

    Dvdw Rookie

    May 27, 2021
    7
    Hengelo
    Full Name:
    Daniël van de Weijer
    As soon as i'll have the tools to read/write the ecus i can share the dump yes
     
  20. sass0

    sass0 Rookie

    Jan 17, 2023
    21
    Slovenia
    Full Name:
    Saso M
    U have the 7.3H4 right? Galetto i think it reads it or kwp i think:)

    if you have some 430s i have dumps and challengeStradales:)
     
  21. Dvdw

    Dvdw Rookie

    May 27, 2021
    7
    Hengelo
    Full Name:
    Daniël van de Weijer
    client had 2 430 challenge race cars, but they both got sold last week, one to france and one to denmark. My profile pic is one of the two
     
  22. Dvdw

    Dvdw Rookie

    May 27, 2021
    7
    Hengelo
    Full Name:
    Daniël van de Weijer
    its has motronic 7.3 ecus indeed don't know if its H4 or not. On the back of the ecu there's part nr: 182542 and it says F131 Challenge
     
  23. sass0

    sass0 Rookie

    Jan 17, 2023
    21
    Slovenia
    Full Name:
    Saso M
    I’ll take a pic of mine when i get to my workshop
     
  24. sass0

    sass0 Rookie

    Jan 17, 2023
    21
    Slovenia
    Full Name:
    Saso M
  25. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    4,252
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    360trev
    100% none of the 360 ECUs are H4 (Hardware revision 4) skew.

    I would strongly recommended to take extreme caution and use anti static protection and measures when dealing with 360 ECUs now. They are so valuable now and difficult to source you don't want your inexperience to cause damage.

    Pirated galetto sw (clone) is garbage and not recommended. Many have viruses and malware in the drivers so take care. Some even have fake cloned k-line chips which are at one time where killed by genuine FDTI drivers.

    I will release my solution soon which will be fully warranted and work across multiple operating systems, Windows, Linux and Mac.
     
    Dvdw, cavlino, tomw and 1 other person like this.

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