Ferrari 360 major service / camshaft question

I think finding TDC and trying to time the cams with the engine in the car is far more difficult and perilous than it sounds.

The 12 timing scribes/marks are there to get the belts on the right tooth.

An indicator is not going to determine TDC less than the acceptable error and trying to set up an indicator on the valves and get first motion with the natural friction/stiction of the pistons is much easier to read about than it is to do in my experience and opinion.

At TDC you’ll need to lock the crank and rotate the cams and secure them to the pulleys.

If you are not racing competitively I don’t think you going to experience a quantifiable difference.

 

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "lock the crank" at TDC, the HE tool definitely does not hold the motor at TDC.

 

When I had my 360 from late 08 ( bought after the financial meltdown ) I always used a franchised U.K. dealer for the next 9 yrs and 3 belt jobs .Services varied from as little as £799 GBP for a lub and brake fluid to nearer £2 K GBP for the belts and usually some odd bits of suspension “ tie rods “ .
They did a pre service test drive to check for suspension rattles and brake functionality and importantly the power / performance thingy .Some one mentioned a tiny degree error out , the ECU variable thingy only works via the software parameters to tight margins .
Importantly they did a post service test drive and sign off as well .The car I understand via “ Leonardo “ franchised software was connected up telemetry to a computer in Marenello and all its info stored .Stuff like over revs , rev history , gear change points , clutch pick up etc etc .

The point is this after 9 yrs FFSH I took it from 18 K miles to 56 K miles and sold it to the trade for £16 K GBP more than i paid for it .

So less the £10 K GBP I put in at the franchised dealer I was above water with it .

I did once have at an Indy for something minor ( dealer was a long way away and the car had zero warranty) AC re gas or something trivial? Unfortunately I could not pick it up so he dropped it off back home ( 6 miles ) and on arrival he reported it had one of the smoothest F1 boxes and most powerful motor he had experienced.He wrenched on a lot btw inc Lambos .So knew how they Ferraris differed slightly.

It’s FFSH during its life it had various soft where up grades and other back of house campaigns along it franchised life .

Just saying .
I understand why Rifledriver was enquiring about the OPs serial No if I understood his post correctly? Avoid this one .

As for home wrenching yes I too like many on here dabble , but some stuff I do out source .It ain’t the money it’s realising certain jobs are riddled with potential expensive rabbit holes and better done by pros .

keeping the invoices I thinks assists in holding the residuals .That’s my experience with F cars .
Testarossa 10 y 360 F1 9 y and currently a 208 GT 4 ( the 2.0L version )

 

There is a tool that Hill makes (and so does Ferrari) that locks the crank at the flywheel. It bolts under the gearbox.

 

Maybe there is some confusion on terms and what tool or method is needed when.

Crank and cam shafts do not need to be "locked" at all but in some methods it helps. For example when cam timing the crank is not locked but brought to TDC as a base reference point, cams on assembly marks and then system rotated to check/adjust cam timing. Cogs are "locked" to shafts under rotation but moved to adjust timing as needed.

For assembly conditions nothing needs to be locked or pinned either. But as easy way to do this is crank at TDC and shafts installed and temporarily "locked" with old school matchbook cover trick because the springs can move the shafts around during belt install....we only have 2 hands.

Then some will "lock" the crank so they can torque the crank damper nut. Some use a special tool for this. The only tool I have ever needed was simply a prybar on flywheel teeth purchased against the bell house or judicious placement of a rag in some cases.

I always laugh when I think about rebuilding a 348 gearbox with my friend Ernie. He came up with "especial 348 gearbox tool ventisei"....it was a rubber band he took off my newspaper. We got papers delivered back then.

 

I have it. I just ain't at TDC.

The existence of the "lock" tools isn't the question. Someone mentioned "locking the crank" at TDC. It just doesn't exist. The Ferrari and HE tool locks the flywheel, but it has no clue where TDC is on your particular motor.

No, That was RD just being RD We're used to it...but let's be honest, most dealers are going to follow the workshop manual that utilizes the exact process that the OP was following. The cams being a degree or 2 off may not get top performance from the motor, but it's also not going to destroy it. These are typical overhead cam motors.

 

But not at TDC.

 

When I think of locking a flywheel while timing an engine..I would assume TDC would have already been found and the crank/flywheel locked in the position so it can't move.

Some engines require all timing work to be done at 45 degrees BTDC like Merceds and I think Landrover. They include a Crack lock pin in the timing tool set etc.

With Ferrari you are indeed on your own to find TDC. But locking the crank at TDC is do able with the hill tool. I made my own from and old ring gear..

 

Do tell your secrets...my TDC "lock" is about 35 vice grips after using the HE tool to remove the crank pulley.

 

So can you hand crank it now then?

 

Nope. Not possible.

 

I started very politely trying to help him and in reply he in essence said to FO. .
Not my fault he is an ass.
And asking for the VIN of a butchers car is nothing to apologize for .

 

That's cool you have some of the equipment you should have started with.
Having them is one thing..
Knowing how to use and understand them is another.
Much luck.

 

Except for this job an analog indicator is 10000% easier to use. Of all my indicators not one is digital.
I have a lot of digital measuring tools but not indicators.

 

+1

Trying to find TDC using a digital dial indicator is like trying to find a lost child at Disneyland.

Ray

 

No, but that leak down tester might give you a run for your money.

Ray

 

Agreed. Can't do it.

I bought the exact digital indicator as the OP as the ones I had are not metric.

Never hated something so quickly in my life and immediately replaced it with metric analog indicators.

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What? No one going to bash his small degree wheel because the resolution isn't as good as a big one? LOL...You guys are slipping!

 

Just out of interest I have seen guys on 308 vids ( not too dissimilar to a 360 V8 ) using a knitting needle in the plug hole , watching it rise / fall to determine or self cert TDC if they use marks as well .
There are I guess longer versions of this ?

 

Same experience with the lathe centering tools. You just get mad looking at the digital display, whereas the bouncing needle is so easier to deal with.

On top of it, these digital indicators are of so-so quality. I've tried once a professional digital indicator. It does the job for sure, but that's not the same budget.

In the end, a used analog indicator is much more sturdy (and acurate) than these cheapy gizmos. This being said, the piston stop tool is more acurate and cheaper (although not as versatile).

 

The OP has a huge self esteem, this will probably compensate for the small degree wheel

This being said, as a first step I would probably stick to basics and let these fancy toold aside: this maintenance is already beyond what the OP originally planned, so the no nonsense approach would be to line up everything and stick to TDC. Degreeing the cams should be kept for later.

When working on my engine, unexpected maintenance tasks are usually the most troublesome. So sticking to the original plan as much as I can, and not atempting "while you are there" fancy attempt until the project is under control again.

A bit of modesty and risk management do help when working in these.

 

Those of us that actually have some experience know a big one will not fit.

 

I guess only one guy got the humor in my post that goes along with the overall tone of this thread.

And in general "while you are in there" is important to getting ahead of failures. It is important to look around when doing maintenance and not get too target fixated on the task. I don't think that's getting fancy. I think that's being prudent. Let's say you are doing timing belts and see a drop of coolant from the water pump weep hole yet have zero symptoms of failure. That acknowledgement and action might save you on your next long trip.