This is important enough to me that I'd learn it. Plus, I'd be happy to help defray your time and money expenses. So, when you're ready, let us know.
Trev, I am one of those "nerds" having been schooled in the extremely popular computer languages such as RPGII, COBOL, Fortran, and my utmost favorite machine code.....would love to read a walkthrough paper on this!
Okay, my informal testing following the starter relay mod. Last Saturday, I parked the car but did not plug my tender in. Battery voltage showed 12.8 with doors shut, tucked away for the night. I checked the voltage periodically over the week by looking through the windshield at my voltage guage, so nothing was activated or energized. Today, I am driving a friends niece to her prom in the Ferrari. So getting the car ready, I was a little concerned since the voltage showed to be 11.9. I got in, pump energized, waiting for OK to illuminate and the car fired off...no issues, no shuddering, no bogging, etc. Since this is a completely informal test, I can't say if the starter mod did this or not. The only thing I know for sure is I have never gone 5 days with the car being off a tender and not having issues. I believe 3 was max but I could be wrong. Only way I know of to validate this would be to wire the relay back up and do a voltage drop before and after. We will see....
RPGII - that was my living for many years!!!! I also programmed in NEAT/3 and not many can say that. Sent from my BBF100-1 using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Dummy asking to verify accuracy of information. So I remove the 2 cables for Pin 12 & Pin 13 and connect them together outside of the 16 pin connector? Please and thanks
You can either lift tabs by using a flat headed screwdriver on area where circles shown then carefully lift plastic flap and remove the wired pins or simply cut as shown here and join them appropriately. Heatshrink is usually ideal for this. Image Unavailable, Please Login Sent from my VOG-L29 using FerrariChat.com mobile app
SUCCESS!! After battling a wonky immobilizer for a few years, Trev stepped up, actually showed up at my home (6K hides from his home) to help. That alone is unbelievable. But he set out on a mission to eliminate the worthless immobilizer in our cars that are problematic and prone to failures. Long story short....... my immobilizer is deleted. The car starts every time...... as it should! Thanks Trev for your help and perseverance. And thanks for your friendship!
Your more than welcome sir. Dino, you are the whole reason why Swiss Army Knife even exists. I did the work originally to help you out of an impossible hole. I know how hateful it is to own a car with the "will it / won't it" start behaviour. Makes you want to sell it. The 360 platform is actually reliable just silly niggles like immobilizer let the side down. Well this is another one we'll and truely ticked off the list! Now get out and enjoy that sound again of your Challenge Stradale with X-Pipe! Makes your Mclaren sound tame in comparison Cheers Trev Sent from my VOG-L29 using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Just a quick update on this thread wrt color of pins for doing the relay bypass. We are talking about the larger 16 pin connector from the largest immobilizer box. Its location is under a panel behind the seats. There is a heavy metal bracket and the immobilizer units are hidden behind this heavy fortified bracket. Pins 12 & 13 get joined together. Previously I have described them as white and black, its actually more 'grey' than white. So consider it grey/black pair that get joined. This has confused some people, sorry for the confusion! I repeat, this wiring loom does NOT defeat the immobilizer, it simply bypasses the function of the stage 2 immobilization of the starter used for engine cranking. This means if your immobilizer is still ON you'll hear the engine try to crank but no fuel will be given. Where this bypass becomes useful is in the context that the relay inside the immobilizer is switched by the chip inside the unit. Since this is an analogue relay they are mechanical and they do fail. You can either desolder and source a replacement relay or simply use this wiring bypass to prevent the issue altogether.
So Trev when Dino says, "....my immobilizer is defeated..." what else did he have done to accomplish this? This mod of bypassing that analog relay and then what? And this additional mod is it something that we can do with proper instructions? I can't wait to get mine done. Please and thanks
He shipped me his ecus just like a few eager owners have already done from all corners of the world. Since virtually everyone is running different sw on their ecus (40 different variants and counting!) I wrote a special version of Swiss army knife which does this job of automatically detecting and patching of the immobilizer code for all 360s (including Challenge race cars and Stradale's) , F430s, 430 Scuderia, 612, etc. I backup the original code, test the ecus on the bench and then on my car with my own firmware running, then reflash them and test them again. This rigorous approach guarantees that when the owner gets them back its going to work since I've tested the ecus first to check they are not part of the problem. Swiss army knife also can restore immobilizer too back to stock and so the entire thing is completely reversible. Once final tool is released you can do it DIY, until then it's manual processing. I did Dinos the old way manually out of the car... Trev Sent from my VOG-L29 using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Anyone who's recently contacted me via PM to express interest to get an early access to immo delete please get back in touch now. I will do a few more after the Easter holidays (as many I as I can, time permitting). I aim to have the tool itself ready by around Aug/Sep timeframe. I know that's a while away but a lot going on at the moment. Sorry if that disappoints anyone but this part time best effort / isn't my day job so don't get a huge amount of spare time to spend on it.
I noticed under testing that some of the failing relays where 'flapping', switching randomly between state, so maybe yours is one of them and it was indeed causing your battery to go flat. With the whole immobilizer removed and a new battery I am now getting an amazing 3+ months without the need to put on the charger and that's with a tracker fitted which is monitoring battery voltage. Car still fires up without any issue. Loving that!
This is much more than just the wiring fix. Trevor has (correct me if I'm wrong), reverse engineered our ECUs (which are also cheap POS') to eliminate the ECU actually looking for the signal that it's OK to start (from the immobilizers). Trev...... the way mine is now, can I totally remove the 2 imho boxes and be done?
Correct. Blipping a correctly paired fob sets off a chain of events where the immobilizer itself uses an old mechanical relay to activate starter motor enable (that is you can crank engine) whereas if the fob isn't used you cannot even crank. However thats not all, it then under timed conditions, think without checking its about 30 seconds to a minute it sends a unique deactivation entitlement to start message which is sent via the second smaller immobilizer unit. This needs to be sent to the right hand side ecu which is paired to the immobilizer. If that message isn't sent or is wrong the engine ecu won't grant entitlement to fuel and will stay in locked not entitled state. In other words it waits to get the right deactivation code before it will allow the engine to start... The starter motor cut relay is easy to bypass just by looking at datasheet of relays and or inspecting back of immobilizer board. Then simply using a multimeter to check activation of relay states (which are active or not) when immobilizer is off and when it's on. As far as relays are concerned one is for doors lock/unlock control, one is used for indicator light flashing and one for starter motor enable/disable. The tricky bit is bypassing the entire thing which is what I was keen to do as these electronics are not reliable and the only way to accomplish this was to do the starter bypass joining of 2 wires and also then the real difficulty to isolate the immobilizer code inside the engine ecus and bypass its digital lockout mechanism inside there. That's exactly what Swiss Army Knife does, it analyzes the firmware extracted from the ignition ecus and patches the rom so that the immobilizer is completely eliminated. So the combination of starter bypass and reflash allows total removal of the immobilizer units. The only disadvantage here is that the fob is also used for lock unlock wireless reception so you can leave it present for the function of locking unlocking alone. However we just did this yesterday evening to a friends car in Norway, also a member on here and yes his relays had failed and where indeed flapping. So he inially had the weird behaviour of his cars indicators flashing randomly until we cut those wires too but also even after that he could hear the ticking of the relays flapping back and forth. So best way if you still want to keep functioning fobs for locking unlocking is to either remove the two tyco relays completely so they don't run your battery flat or cut tracks using a sharp Stanley knife to prevent them powering on... So yes it's proof a failing immobilizer really does drain your battery! Sent from my VOG-L29 using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Other relay pins on same connector FYI... One you do my starter bypass wiring mod you can also do a indicators flash mod too its simply better to remove entirely the two tyco relays as they then serve no purpose but to drain battery when failing as they flap about draining your battery... Image Unavailable, Please Login Sent from my VOG-L29 using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Couple more questions for Trev: (1) After a full SAK mod are my ecu(s) still left and right or do you castrate them to be either/or status? (2) If yes to above and they are now identical does it mean that any spare ecu will work on any side in a pinch? (3) If no to any please explain. Please and thanks
Yes Yes and yes. You can use either side as they are not paired. They have identical firmware running on either side. One spare can be kept in car for any failures and easily swapped at side of road with just an Allen key and 10mm socket. Sent from my VOG-L29 using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Thank you Trev. That's great news. Can't wait to get mine done. Just have to figure out the timing & logistics. After such a long winter I don't want it parked much longer
Kinda veering off the path a little but I've got a weird indicator problem that I can't track down. After reading this, I'm wondering if it's not related. At completely random times, my left indicator will activate but not a full activation. The side marker light is dimmer than normal, the indicator click sounds like random Morse code (i.e. flapping back and forth). At times, it will keep the left indicators on, although they are dimmer than normal. When it goes into this state, the indicators are completely disabled. The only way to clear it is to pull the turn signal relay under the dash. This occurs with standard mechanical relay as well as the electronic one from Scud Ing that supports the LED lights that I have. Could this be related to the mechanical flasher relays in the immoblizer system?
Well funny you should say this but I had exactly the same issue and I was convinced it was the indicator stalks failing because it would just do all kinds of weird random indicating, sometimes it would work, sometimes not and I went through what must have been 3 indicator relays, eventually settling on the Scuding one too. It still kept on randomly playing up. Once I did the full immobilizer delete I haven't had the same problem again so yes for me it really was interfering with the function of the indicators.. Here's some of the random symptoms you can have from a failing immobilizer ecu 1. Random Starting Issues / Cranking but not starting [Tyco Immobilizer Relay] 2. Starting on 1 bank sometimes and not both [Tyco Immobilizer Relay] 3. Random Indicator problems [Tyco Indicator Relay] 4. Random problems with door locks unlocking/locking themselves. You leave your car locked and come back to find it open! [Black Relay, non tyco type] * 5. Poor Battery Life [getting less than 2 weeks off tender] [Failing Relay's flipping state randomly] This damn bit of electronic hell is the cause of so many issues its unbelievable. It also means 1. Officially anyway, you need to replace you pair of ecu's if there is a problem with it and it needs replacement (at great cost, many thousands of $). 2. It means you have to fumble around with the keyfob every start to get it into the right 'state' for engine starting... So frustrating to lock/unlock before starting engine! 3. *on Point 4, due to the constant locking/unlocking it can cause the door lock solenoids to overheat and burn out meaning they also need to be replaced... Arrrgh.. Thankfully now its days of bothering us are numbered. Bosch you have a lot to answer for. Terrible. Rant over.
I'm following this thread with real interest and anticipation as my 360 really does not last long off the battery tender. Can I please ask if I'm reading this right, Trev. Once you have the 'Swiss Army Knife' tool completed and available as something I can buy from you, I will be able to DIY remove/disable the immobiliser without wire cutting, yes? The wire splicing is a half-way house to your completed project? Apologies if this is a daft question and I've missed something obvious...
