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Ferrari 365 GTC\4 16015

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Bowzer, Aug 2, 2021.

  1. Bowzer

    Bowzer Formula Junior

    Aug 3, 2016
    278
    MALTA
    Full Name:
    Marcus
    Hello all,

    I am looking at 16051 - 1972
    Assembly sequence 289/291
    Delivery Italy

    Argento on Nero , original paint , Euro version

    Car in magnificent declared original and one owner.

    Kindly advise if there is any bad known news for this car.
    Thank you
     
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  3. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    17,412
    Wrong original exterior color.
    Wrong original interior color.
    Wrong assembly sequence number.
    Wrong body number.
    Not one owner, but 8 owners in several countries.

    I don't know what your sources are, but........

    Marcel Massini
     
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  4. Bowzer

    Bowzer Formula Junior

    Aug 3, 2016
    278
    MALTA
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    Marcus
    terribly sorry Marcel my bad misprint, 16015 !
    And I saw it more a Grigio Chiaro, rather than Argento
     
  5. Bowzer

    Bowzer Formula Junior

    Aug 3, 2016
    278
    MALTA
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    Marcus
    Would Mr. Marcel Massini kindly revisit this post and see my initial mistake in the Vin number ?
    Thank you
     
  6. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
    8,211
    Cardiff, UK
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    Steven Robertson
    #5 miurasv, Aug 4, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2021
    Again, see posts here and here.
     
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  8. Bowzer

    Bowzer Formula Junior

    Aug 3, 2016
    278
    MALTA
    Full Name:
    Marcus
    If Mr. Massini was quite happy to give information to an enthusiast and buyer who simply cannot globetrot allover the western world to get correct initial information about a car, I am quite confident that having already been a customer of the mr. Massini ( althought he may not know this) , just a run away from the car alert would be a kind help to this Ferrari enthusiast and owner humanity who suffers a lot due to our passion and love for Ferrari Classic cars . After all if I did not by mistake chage 2 numbers in the vin , I am sure Mr. massini would have been more than happy ( as he usually does ) provide some initial information. Thank you. After all, you wouldn't know, you're a MIURA SV guy ;-)
     
  9. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
    8,211
    Cardiff, UK
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    Steven Robertson
    You can't globe trot, but you expect Mr Massini to give you the benefit, and not just once, many times, of his globetrotting to find Ferrari facts, which is very time consuming and very expensive, for free.
     
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  10. Bowzer

    Bowzer Formula Junior

    Aug 3, 2016
    278
    MALTA
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    Marcus
    I expect nothing , I just asked and that is all. If it is not in his interest to divulge primary info , then it is up to him. And I think you are jumping the gun here speaking for another person. You should know that a promising first information normally leads to a purchase of the Massini report and then the car when one is sure what he is buying to treasure in his collection. At least, that is the way I see it. As for other expenses prior to the actual visit , I have already paid for a mechanical and coachwork PEP from a local expert.
     
  11. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
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    Cardiff, UK
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    Steven Robertson
    #9 miurasv, Aug 4, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2021
    First or preliminary reports by automobile inspectors, especially by world famous Ferrari experts, do NOT come free of charge. The information and expertise in such a report is not easily come by, quite the opposite actually. Had you commissioned Mr Massini for this "first" report, and it contained negative information (and I'm not saying it would have for this particular car), you at the very least would have saved the costs you have already spent with the local expert. You are missing the point of engaging the services of a Ferrari expert to give you the car's history, general condition (not mechanical) and authenticity, which I pointed out to you previously. Expert reports are actually cost effective and extremely useful when there is negative information on a car to allow you to avoid those that you do not end up treasuring in your collection. A report such as a Massini Report is not just for good cars but to allow you to avoid the bad ones or even to help you to better negotiate terms of a purchase.
     
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  13. Bowzer

    Bowzer Formula Junior

    Aug 3, 2016
    278
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    Marcus
    Not all cars are the same. First and foremost the expense to have it as one wishes is the most important. Verification of what a trusted friend and owner is telling you about the car comes later and just before signing the eventual sales agreed price. And this has to be done discreetly and telling the owner that as we have always been good friends, you must understand that now I must get the Massini Report to verify all that you have told me about your car . And this is were the owner would say , sure go ahead , or no why spend money for nothing. ;-) ...............In this case I have chosen to act this way .
     
  14. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
    8,211
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    Steven Robertson
    But you still want the initial Massini Report free of charge, that you clearly do not appreciate the value of and how difficult that information is to come by, that possibly allows you to get to the final stages of the purchase.
     
  15. Bowzer

    Bowzer Formula Junior

    Aug 3, 2016
    278
    MALTA
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    Marcus
    Miura SV, It seems you did not read mu initial request on this thread. I never asked for the initial report. I just asked if there was any known bad news on this Vin. That is all. It was Mr. Massini himself who chose to divulge more info than requested on a misprinted vin number .
     
  16. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
    8,211
    Cardiff, UK
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    Steven Robertson
    #13 miurasv, Aug 4, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2021
    Everybody knows that your numerous requests for information on cars are directed solely at Marcel Massini as he is the only one who can answer your specific kind of questions. Marcel has helped you a number of times from what I can see. It would be a good idea from now on to allow him the courtesy of contacting him directly and engaging his services professionally.
     
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  17. Bowzer

    Bowzer Formula Junior

    Aug 3, 2016
    278
    MALTA
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    Marcus
    Wow , am famous now !
     
  18. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    17,412
    @bowzer:
    You do have my personal and direct email address since many years.
    "miurasv" is absolutely right.
    Why not contact me directly and personally by email, as you did in March 2018?

    Marcel Massini
     
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  19. Bowzer

    Bowzer Formula Junior

    Aug 3, 2016
    278
    MALTA
    Full Name:
    Marcus
    Will do when the time is right , thank you
     
  20. Bowzer

    Bowzer Formula Junior

    Aug 3, 2016
    278
    MALTA
    Full Name:
    Marcus
    Great !

    Having investigated the car , I have come up with the following data :
    sn 16015 - 1972
    Assembly sequence 289/291
    Delivery Italy

    Argento on Nero , original paint , Euro version

    Owners all Italian
    1. Giuliano Follioley,
    2. Renato Iscra,
    3. Renato Pirota,
    4. Ing Lionello Radici ( deceased 2015 ) last driving owner , now it belongs to his estate.
     
  21. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    17,412
    291 is not the assembly number.

    Marcel Massini
     
  22. Bowzer

    Bowzer Formula Junior

    Aug 3, 2016
    278
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    Full Name:
    Marcus
    Thank you
     
  23. bellabarbas

    bellabarbas Formula Junior

    Dec 28, 2008
    702
    Italy
    Full Name:
    Corrado
  24. Bowzer

    Bowzer Formula Junior

    Aug 3, 2016
    278
    MALTA
    Full Name:
    Marcus
  25. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    17,412
    Lionello Radicci's 16015 has been on the market since he passed away in October 2015.

    Marcel Massini
     
  26. Bowzer

    Bowzer Formula Junior

    Aug 3, 2016
    278
    MALTA
    Full Name:
    Marcus
    Thank you so much Marcel, and from my info not driven since 2013 when he bought it from the estate of Pirotta. Only had a tire change because they are 5 years old , and so much work to be done on body scuffs and drive train. Stands at about 45k km.
     
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  27. thepinkumbrella

    thepinkumbrella F1 Veteran

    Feb 26, 2006
    5,841
    United Kingdom
    At the risk of being pedantic, I assume there is a typo in the first owners surname as ‘Y’ doesn’t exist in the Italian alphabet…
     
  28. Bowzer

    Bowzer Formula Junior

    Aug 3, 2016
    278
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    Marcus
    Many interesting families lived in Padova Italy in the late 60's and 70's ;-)
     

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