Ferrari 375 Indy car

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by JBeutler, Aug 19, 2004.

  1. JBeutler

    JBeutler Rookie

    Aug 4, 2004
    14
    Camano Island WA
    Full Name:
    Jon Beutler Jr
    What knowlege do people have about these cars? I know there was something like 4 brought over for the race. 1951 I believe was the year, and Ascari was the driver for Ferrari. I know more about it.... but I want to know even MORE! What all can we compose about these rare machines?

    JB
     
  2. BigTex

    BigTex Six Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 6, 2002
    68,793
    Houston, Texas
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    Bubba
    Wire wheels broke......DNF
     
  3. JBeutler

    JBeutler Rookie

    Aug 4, 2004
    14
    Camano Island WA
    Full Name:
    Jon Beutler Jr
    Does anyone know where these cars are now? I know there is one at the museum in the Indianapolis track. Anyone know of others?
     
  4. Fiat Dino 206

    Fiat Dino 206 Karting

    Apr 19, 2004
    144
    Mississippi
    Full Name:
    David
    Interesting? It was for the 1952 Indy race I believe .... the chassis numbers were 01, 02, 03, 04 ...

    01 Ferrari qualified and raced by Alberto Ascarai (Did not finish) ... broken wire wheel I believe.
    02 Grant Piston did not qualify - driven by Johnny Parsons.
    03 Kennedy Tank Special did not qualify - driven by Johnny Mauro.
    04 Keck Special, I am not sure, but I don't think this car attempted qualifying.

    I don't know where any of the cars are located, but you may find some information at the following site:

    http://www.barchetta.cc/english/All.Ferraris/summary/Street_cars.htm

    scroll down to "Formula 1, 2 and others" I think it is and search for the 375 Indy cars ...

    Best wishes
     
  5. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
    5,905
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    Jeff B.
    Jon: Road & Track did a series of articles on the Ferraris that came to Indianapolis, with numerous detail pictures. I have all of these issues from 1952. Here is a picture of a piston, which should match the one in your possession. And individual shots of the four cars.
     
  6. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

    Apr 28, 2004
    6,415
    Etceterini Land
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    Dr.Stuart Schaller
    Tino Martinoli, who was indirectly responsible for Ferrari's first race win ever (the car was repaired at his shop in Rome, when it spun a bearing in practice) came to the US as a mechanic with the Indy cars. Tino later had the Ferrari tuning and repair shop called Marcor, in Hollywood, Ca.

    Tino passed away about 15 years ago, but his son Mario is a well know chef and TV and radio personality in the LA area.
     
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  8. Fiat Dino 206

    Fiat Dino 206 Karting

    Apr 19, 2004
    144
    Mississippi
    Full Name:
    David
    Jon:

    I had noticed your last name, but did not wish to presume that you may be kin to a past owner of one of the subject vehicles.

    With "Miltonian's" response, I looked back over your past posts and find the following post:

    "I have a piston from a very rare Ferrari that was given to me by my grandfather (the piston not the car, and it was actually had some damage to it... went into the valves! Anyhow, its really great paper weight, does it maybe have some value to it do you think? It is from one of the few early fifties (I believe 51) Ferrari 375F1- Indy car. It was the Johnny Parsons I believe car. Anyhow... any thougths as to value? Ten bucks maybe? Anyhow I am going to post if anyone knows anything about these cars (Indianapolis)."

    If your Grandfather is a previous owner of this car, I am sure that the piston that you have did come from the "Grants Piston" car as the previous owner and I communicated via email regarding this car during a period when I purchased several small parts from this car for display. He mentioned that the car had punched a valve during a race at one point during his ownership. As there is some provenance to the piston and if it does indeed look similar to the one pictured in the post provided by "Miltonian" I would suspect that the market value of the piston would be between $250 and $400.

    I would hope that you would not sell it, but rather keep it as a momento of your families history.

    Best wishes
     
  9. vince308

    vince308 Formula 3

    May 23, 2003
    1,303
    belgium
    Full Name:
    vincent
    some pictures
     
  10. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 29, 2004
    10,349
    The Netherlands
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    Peter den Biggelaar
    s/n 02 is here in The Netherlands with Mr. Louwman in his museum.

    Ciao, Peter
     
  11. Erik330

    Erik330 Formula Junior

    May 8, 2004
    666
    Ohio
    A very nice lawyer from Detroit owned one of the cars in the 1970s and darned if I can remember his name. He vintage raced the car pretty regularly. I don't know whether or not he still owns the car.
     
  12. JBeutler

    JBeutler Rookie

    Aug 4, 2004
    14
    Camano Island WA
    Full Name:
    Jon Beutler Jr
    Gentleman, thank you so much for your help and assistance. I plan on never getting rid of that piston. Especially because the "very nice lawyer from Detroit" was so kind as to give it to me before he sold this special machine. It looks like you fellas did some research and payed attention to my last name. The Grant piston car was his... I have a great picture of myself in that car when I was something like 3 years old. I had the passion even then! You can see it in my eyes. Right before he sold the car, I got another chance to sit in it while it was in the garage, it was such a great experience especially since I fit in it at that time and actually could see over that large steering wheel! By far the nicest car I have been in the driver seat of!
     
  13. Erik330

    Erik330 Formula Junior

    May 8, 2004
    666
    Ohio
    Oh geeze, I am thick. The name was there all along. If your grandfather was Ernie and he's still around tell him hello. I remember him as a very kind and modest guy. When I started vintage racing in the 1970s, your grandfather, Jack Mayes, Ed and Sandra Osborn, John Kleen and Frank Opalka were the only people running VSCCA from the midwest.
     
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  15. vince308

    vince308 Formula 3

    May 23, 2003
    1,303
    belgium
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    vincent
    please, show us your picture when you where 3 years old, must be great.

    greetings, vincent
     
  16. arttidesco

    arttidesco Karting

    Oct 6, 2010
    133
    Bristol
    Full Name:
    Ralph Colmar
    #14 arttidesco, May 2, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Some of you will have seen pictures I have posted elsewhere on this forum and will be aware that I post a regular Ferrari Friday blog :

    http://psychoontyres.blogspot.com/2011/04/grazin-arizona-ferrari-166-mm-0052m.html

    This week an acquaintance Brian in Indiana has kindly let me use these photo's (see posted below) in my month long blog celebration of the centenary of the Indianapolis 500.

    I wonder if any one can help me identify exactly which (if any) of the 375 Indy cars can be seen on the trailer ?

    Brian took these photographs around 1971 in the Holiday Inn Car Park in Dearborn.

    I have seen photo's of what 'looks' like the same car in 1970 said to be on Lindley Bothwells estate on TORCS

    http://www.tamsoldracecarsite.net/IndyFerrari2.html

    the TORCS page says 375 Serial No.2 was the #6 Grant Piston Ring Special and that the colour was RED.

    I know the car Ascari ran was red BUT I have only ever seen 'in period' photographs of the #6 Grant Piston Ring Special in a creamy off white colour.

    http://www.tamsoldracecarsite.net/Indyferrari375.jpg

    Can any one confirm the #6 Grant Piston Ring ever ran red in period and if it was ever painted red out of period ?

    All reply's will be duly credited if used on my blog.

    Thanking you in anticipation of your responses,

    Ralph aka Art T

    http://psychoontyres.blogspot.com/
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  17. BigTex

    BigTex Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
    68,793
    Houston, Texas
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    #15 BigTex, May 4, 2011
    Last edited: May 4, 2011
    The Grant car was indeed cream or off white with red lettering, per the 1/43rd example in my die cast collection (Brumm??)...

    "Ending up red" is predictible but IMO inaccurate to the Indy race trim colors, as you see in that track photo.

    Edit: That puts me on the "wrong side of history" per the notes of Micheal T Lynch (race color = red) in the link cited above, maybe the modelers have it wrong.
     
  18. arttidesco

    arttidesco Karting

    Oct 6, 2010
    133
    Bristol
    Full Name:
    Ralph Colmar
    Mystery of the colour of the #6 at Indy in 1952 deepens, on the Grant Piston Ring website are pics of the familiar #6 white Grant Piston Ring Special and a pic of Danny Oakes at the wheel of an apparently red vehicle with a Grant Piston Ring Decal, is it possible the car was painted during the month of May and if so from white to red ?

    http://www.grantpistonrings.com/history/history_cars.htm#

    Also interesting to note is that Danny is not sitting behind a wide screen but a small formula one type such as Ascari used for the 500, where as the white #6 has a much wider perspex screen.
     
  19. gpmotorsllc

    gpmotorsllc Karting

    Jun 27, 2011
    74
    Camano Island, WA
    Full Name:
    Jon F Beutler Jr.
    This is Jon, formerly JBeutler who started this thread. A lot can take place in 7 years or so! I have been busy with life and not keeping up with Ferrari chat. In fact, I noticed the day I posted this thread was the day I first asked out my wife (later on that evening). Anyhow...

    Back to the car. I do know a bit about it. When my grandfather owned it, the car was red. I am not sure however if he painted the car red, or if he bought it that way. Something in my memory makes me think he painted it red. I do recall him telling me later on (after he sold it, which took place in the mid to late nineties) that the pedal assembly had the brake and throttle pedals in opposite locations, and the car was subsequently badly wrecked at a vintage race when the driver reacted entering a corner accelerating rather than braking and wrecking the vehicle. That is the last I have heard of it. I would love to know who owns it and where it is located these days!

    Unfortunately, my grandfather, Ernie Beutler's health has not been the greatest lately. He has dementia, so questioning him about the vehicle would likely prove fruitless. I don't know though, maybe I could have my father ask him if he remembers anything about it. As my previous posts have said, I grew up obsessing over vehicles, carrying over his passion. Now I own a small independent sports car dealership and am passing on the legacy to my son, nearly two years old, who has been bitten badly by the Ferrari bug.

    If anyone has specific questions about the car, I would do my best to answer them. I always love to talk about these vehicles, so feel free to contact me any time!
     
  20. gpmotorsllc

    gpmotorsllc Karting

    Jun 27, 2011
    74
    Camano Island, WA
    Full Name:
    Jon F Beutler Jr.
    Arttidesco, where did you receive those pictures of the 375 on the trailer? That is likely my grandfather's trailer (Michigan plates).
     
  21. arttidesco

    arttidesco Karting

    Oct 6, 2010
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    Ralph Colmar
    Hi gpmotorsllc, that is amazing about the trailer likely being your Grandpas, I got the pics from an internet acquaintance called Brian who lives in Indiana.

    PM me if you'd like to be put in contact.
     
  22. SMS

    SMS F1 Veteran
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    Jan 7, 2004
    5,745
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    Bill S.
    Call Donald Davidson at the Speedway, he'll know all kinds of things about the Ferrari Indy cars.
    (317) 492-8500
     
  23. arttidesco

    arttidesco Karting

    Oct 6, 2010
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    Bristol
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    Ralph Colmar
    #22 arttidesco, Jul 2, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2011
    [​IMG]

    Nice to see the Grant Piston Ring Special at Goodwood on Thursday unfortunately the racing cars were only on show for the day.
     
  24. mcwidow70

    mcwidow70 Karting

    May 8, 2009
    67
    Moving to the Johnny Mauro's 375Indy during 1952 season, I know that after trying to qualify at Indy 500 miles he entered the car at Pikes Peak hillclimb and at Dever 100 Miles (a dirt raod race).
    Finally during Denver trial the car suffered a serious incident. The car, as far as I know, was registered as Pylon Q-X special: my bid is the sponsor was a manufacturer of windshield wiper blades (Pylon). Do any one a clear pictures of the logo painted on the car side at Pikes Peak and Denver on 1952?


    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3566616&highlight=ferrari+mauro#post3566616

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6221883&highlight=ferrari#post6221883
     
  25. 250cal

    250cal Rookie

    Sep 7, 2004
    5
    #24 250cal, Jul 4, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2011
    Ernie brought the car to several FCA meets. I recetly wrote this about the 1974 meet at Atlanta I was one of the organizers. Heres a short story about the 1st FCA track event:

    At one meeting, perhaps a Can-Am race, we had a Ferrari corral at Road Atlanta. A nice guy, Gerry Sutterfield from Florida, one of the instigators of the FCA and a past FCA president stopped by, admired the track and the cars we had, and suggested we put on a National Annual Meeting with a track event. We got volunteers for a committee and the 1974 1st Atlanta AM was in the planning stage. Later we learned that track events were not supported by some early FCA members who were not eager to have these irreplaceable Ferraris subject to harm, however by 1973 at the Detroit meeting there was a “low-pressure driver’s school” and the club had insurance to cover no-competition events. Ernie Beutler, an attorney was President and also chairman of the Legal Committee. His enthusiasm might have been bolstered by the fact that he and Dick Merritt owned the powerful 1951 4.5 liter GP car that was prepped by the Grant Piston Ring Co. for Johnnie Parsons to run the 1952 Indy. Although it had the speed to qualify it didn’t run. So Road Atlanta was beckoning.

    Unnfortunately I haven't found any photos in my stash.

    250cal
     
  26. gpmotorsllc

    gpmotorsllc Karting

    Jun 27, 2011
    74
    Camano Island, WA
    Full Name:
    Jon F Beutler Jr.
    Thanks for that excerpt! It is fun to read about and or hear about my grandfather's (Ernie) passion that I get to carry on! And that recent picture of the 375 at Goodwood is great! I'm sure he'd be thrilled to know that the car was restored back to the Grant Piston specs...
     

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