Ferrari 400i vs. 412...

In general, buy the latest version that you can afford of whatever model you're interested in. The 400/400i/412 has been an underappreciated model, so there's lots of them out there with deferred maintenance. If the motor's bad or going bad, the car is essentially valueless. Assuming you're in the States, make sure the car has all the DOT and EPA releases.

And, if you're looking at a red 5-speed 400i in the northwest, be sure to take a very close look at it.

Another great source of information for vintage V12s is www.tomyang.net

 

Yes I like the looks too ... very classy.

The big issues with complex cars like this is that as they devalue so does the quality of the maintenance. Thus you will more than likely have to fix a few bodges ... and bodges on a Ferrari can get expensive to fix.

Thus keep in mind while this is considered a low end v12 Ferrari ... they still have 12 cylinders, 4 camshafts, 24 valves ... high revving motor, lots of exhaust pipes (to rust) ... and if carbed, 6 carbs to get out of tune or needing a rebuild.

This is one of the reasons why this model has become a low end Ferrari, ie. as expensive to maintain as a Daytona but without the 'Wow it is a Daytona' looks, etc.

Hmmm ... I'm no expert, but early fuel injection systems can give big headaches when they go wrong. Can you still get parts for that system?

I'd go for a carbed one myself (which I think means either a 365 or 400) as you get the inlet sound, visual treate and it is something I know and can fix.

The biggest issue with these engines is valve servicing, not because the valve adjustments are hard BUT getting to the valves requires removal of all the carburrettors or fuel injection systems ... thanks to the inlet manifold feeding between the inlet and exhaust camshafts (apparently to obtain a lower bonnet). Thus if you are paying somebody to do this job ... er, it gets expensive due to time.

The other issue I know of is the self levelling shocks ... can no longer be bought, but somewhere in the USA somebody has worked out how to service them (have a look at www.tomyang.net forum archives).

Good luck.
Pete

 

412 is better in almost every way but is much harder to find (so few made).
400 with a 5 speed is a must. Due to gearing and torque/weight they are very sluggish at around town speeds with auto.
Very nice cars.
Down side: Electrical, especially in the 400. 412 was improved in that area.

 

I used to work on them a lot when they were new. The dealer I was at imported quite a few.

I always liked them, a good one is nice to drive (actually handle pretty good). But it seemed it was always something. There are not too many things to fix that are going to be cheap. And last but not least we are talking about a 20 year old exotic.

If you love it, get one. Just don't expect it to cost on the same order as your Audi

 

If I was deciding with my head it would be the BMW
With my heart, Ferrari
No car guy should go to his grave with out having owned a Ferrari

 

Both the 400/412 and the BMW 850 can be fright pigs if you get the wrong one.

The 412 has ABS brakes and more modern electronics. I don't care for the painted bumpers of the car and regardless of what people say, $35k is all the money in the world for the perfect one.

The 400i is actually more complicated than the 365/400 versions as it has 2 of everything under the hood.

Is it reliable to use as a daily driver, yes, but as was said before, there will always be something that needs work. There are alot of wear items on the car and they are 20+ years old at this point. You're going to have to go through every system on the car to make sure that it is perfect.

Not to scare you off of them, because they really are wonderful cars, but it can and probably will cost a small fortune to put right. An engine rebuild is close to the purchase price. Exhaust system can be up to $5k. Great cars, but not something to get if you're on a tight budget.

Put it this way, if you can afford to buy two of them, you will be able to afford to own one.

 

I have a friend who owns a restoration shop and is a 400 series fan. He has owned several 400's and 412's over the last 20 years. In his opinion they are very nice drivers cars, practical for a Ferrari, much easier to work on than either the 365 GTC/4 or later 456 GT's BUT keeping up with the rust in a northern climate is a constant long term loosing battle.

 

We're not trying to scare you off. You just have to realize that you're talking about 20 year old cars and you need to do your homework. They're not cheap to maintain. The injected cars aren't that bad to work on. Who is going to be doing the work on them? If you don't have a mechanic yet, don't even think about getting a car. Find someone that knows these cars. Going to the dealer and paying $105/hr gets old in a hurry.

 

Yes, but a good 308 should have lower running costs. Good luck with the search.

 

How about a 308 GT4. They're cheaper to buy than the 308 GTB/S and are pretty much the cheapest old Ferrari to maintain.

 

HI All, Im looking at a 400I and a 412 that are both very nice well cared for 5 speeds. Th price is $75000 and $79000. Is that way over the top or have things changed over the past few years? Any advice will be greatly appreciated . Regards, John Bissell

 

Prices have moved up over the last few years, especially for manual versions. So if these cars are in good condition the prices you mention seem par for the course. But have them indecently inspected by a specialist before committing to a purchase.

 

Where are you located? US prices are lower than European prices, even with the weaker Euro. Those prices seem very aggressive for the U.S. but I'm not as close to the market as I used to be 3 years ago.

Search the serial numbers on here and you likely will find some information about those cars, particularly since the 5 speeds are so rare.

Oh, yeah, welcome to FChat and in particular this forum! Lots of extremely friendly and knowledgeable people on here that can provide you with incredible assistance in your questions about these cars.

 

If you want a V12 and a manual, don't forget to consider an Aston Martin DB7 or DB9.

 

Holy massive depreciation, Batman! Who knew a 2003 manual V12 Aston would be asking in the low 20's? And there are several to chose from.

 

John, the prices you quote are very much in line with what I would have expected for 5 speeds in good condition with history... dare I say, perhaps about $5K under what I would ultimately them to be.

These cars, especially the rare 5 speeds, have really appreciated quite a bit in the last couple of years. As has been discussed here ad nauseum, a good PPI is critical.

Best of luck and let us know how it turns out! They're magical cars, especially 5 speeds.

Cheers!

Ruben

 

They're no Ferrari V12... IMHO.

Ruben

 

And a bit "modern", no?

 

Compared to a 365/400/412, indeed!

Nonetheless, IMHO, when comparing to Ferrari contemporaries of DB7/DB9, they're still no Ferrari V12. I am, admittedly, quite biased on this subject though.

Cheers!

Ruben

 

I agree. New cars give a neutered experience and as much as I like the astons I think it would fall apart around me and it's a disposable car.