Ferrari 412 - Catalytic Converter | FerrariChat

Ferrari 412 - Catalytic Converter

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by 360modena2003, Dec 20, 2021.

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  1. 360modena2003

    360modena2003 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2009
    2,437
  2. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Brian Crall
    Swiss cars had cats but those are not them. Nothing there behind the headers looks stock.
     
  3. 360modena2003

    360modena2003 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2009
    2,437
    Thanks, yes, has a Japanese "OVER" stainless steel exhaust and an unidentifiable catalytic converter?

    It has no o2 sensor nor a frequency valve, so not sure if a cat would be able to operate.

    Needless to say, the best is to remove this, whatever it is, and straight pipe it from the headers to the rest of the exhaust.

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  4. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,679
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
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    Ken Battle
    Heat shield looks on wrong side unless preventing grass fires rather than burned interior.

    I added a modern cats to my car and exhaust fumes cleaned up considerably, but need to use cut out plates to set the FI system.
    Ken
     
  5. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Brian Crall
    I see 02 sensors and their wiring in the pictures.

    Why wouldn't a cat work without O2's or frequency valves? Cars were cat equipped long before O2's and frequency valves were invented and they seemed to work fine.
     
  6. 360modena2003

    360modena2003 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2009
    2,437
    I will remove it and see what it is - I do not see how the o2 sensor would feed into the K Jet, as there is no adjustment via a frequency valve or similar.

    Perhaps it is a temperature sensor? It is only present on one bank (driver side).

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  7. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,090
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    Brian Crall

    You are conflating. The O2 cannot be functional without but your statement I was commenting on was the cats functionality. They in no way are required to have o2s to function.

    Lets no rewrite our previous posts.
     
  8. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    #8 Steve Magnusson, Dec 21, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2021
    Often a frequency valve and ECU is added, but removed later on (when it is added to a K-Jet without Lambda system, the added frequency valve changes the control pressure, not the lower chamber pressure like on a K-Jet with Lambda system -- so it's a bit of a quasi-Lambda kludge that has a slow response time). Can you post a better picture of that sensor? It does look more like an O2 sensor rather than a thermocouple as Brian indicated (but is really sort of mounted in the wrong place being at the exit of the cat and not the inlet).

    When you say "not Federalized for the US market", did it ever pass thru somewhere else that might require more emission controls -- like Switzerland? Or do you just mean that it is no longer technically legal for the US, but was at one time?
     
  9. 360modena2003

    360modena2003 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2009
    2,437
    Will take better pictures and post.

    This is a European market car that spent some part of its life in Japan - it was never in the US.

    The point I was making is that void of any means of fuel mixture adjustment, the o2 sensor serve no purpose.

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  10. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
    26,785
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    #10 Steve Magnusson, Dec 21, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2021
    That gets a "probably was mucked with for emission stuff". In the late 70's, the Japanese version became near identical to the US version emission-wise -- so anything (imported to Japan) later would probably be held to US-style emission standards, too.

    Absolutely true, but it could have been modified at one time (and now removed). Another possibility is just being "window dressing" to bamboozle an Inspector: "See, it's got cats and an O2 sensor" (even if the O2 sensor is not really doing anything) ;). A properly adjusted K-Jet without Lambda, with cats added, will run very clean at the tailpipes (even without any Lambda functionality) so would pass that part of the Inspector's test easily. And having an O2 sensor (or whatever it is) on one side only is maybe a strong sign that it never had any real Lambda functionality on either bank.
     
  11. 360modena2003

    360modena2003 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2009
    2,437
    Will investigate further, the window dressing sounds very plausible.



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  12. 360modena2003

    360modena2003 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2009
    2,437
  13. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    Still can't really see that sensor on the Driver's side too well, but still looks more O2 sensor than thermocouple. You might have a look behind the interior Passenger footwell panel for where that wire may go as that's a common place where electrical things get added.
     
  14. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    Steve Magnusson
    Maybe I should've said "...have a look behind the fuse-relay panel..." (I'm not sure about the structure of the 412, but that general area is where electrical stuff often gets added on F models).
     
  15. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 23, 2007
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    North Pole AK
    samsaprunoff and 360modena2003 like this.
  16. 360modena2003

    360modena2003 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2009
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  17. raemin

    raemin Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2007
    2,339
    Lyon (FR)
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    R. Emin
    To be honest my brother removed just two of its silencers and this is somehow spoiling spirited driving. Last time I took his car on the highway I had to give the kid my Bose noise cancelling headset. He was fine, but i could not say so about myself : after 3 hours my ears have been ringing for maybe half an hour.


    (The ice-cream was also part of the survival kit : AC was not working and the cabin was hot as hell!)

    If you want to drive down-town, loud exhaust are fine, but if you pretend to drive the car at 3000~4000rpm for extended period of time, the regular setup is quite appropriate. I prefer the 400 exhaust. but depending on how you like it the the 412 sound has more bass while the earlier setup do have a bit more treble (I would suspect this is related to the different middle section of the exhaust).

    Given how expensive these exhausts are, straight pipes do offer much more fun for the money though...
     
  18. Schumi

    Schumi Formula Junior
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    Jun 5, 2002
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    Missouri
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    Daren
    I just straight-piped the middle section of silencers/mufflers and left the pair on the very back end. It is REALLY loud and pretty "boomy" at idle. I'll leave it like this for a while, but I'd really like something in between what I had (quiet) and what I have now (loud).
     
  19. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 23, 2007
    9,617
    North Pole AK
    It is loud. Depends on how you are planning on using the car. Where I live there is really no place to drive to. There is Anchorage which is 380 miles one way so I'm not really going to go there for just a drive. When I take the car out it's usually for an hour or so. When we drove up here from the lower 48, 3500 mile trip, It was a bit much. As Schumi stated something between this set up and stock would probably be perfect. The advantage to my set up is it's relatively inexpensive and helps a little with ground clearance. I'd suggest if you have a good exhaust shop near by go with the straight pipe set up, see how you like it. If it's too much have the shop cut the pipe and put a single muffler instead of the two mufflers on the stock system.
     
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