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Discussion in '458 Italia/488' started by ilikefastcars1, Feb 20, 2018.
Managed the first 15 seconds ..that was more than enough
No chance of by passing Ferrari
With regards to the CF wheels , lets be clear the carbon fibre can handle the heat. What is the factor is the composite ( resin ) that binds it all together. That's where the failure will be.
In past life rebuild a das for car audio. Many used just normal laminating polyester resin. I used vinyl ester as the resin. My oparts were stable up to 280 degrees celcius whereas the others started to deform at 80 degrees.
Most likely the resin prepreg is an epoxy. IT WILL definitely reach a temp of deformation. But what temp ? No such case with Magnesium wheels.
Do race cars use CF wheels, and if not, why?
Mildly interesting clip. The clip shows the Pista ahead of the 720s. However his story shows camera inside the 720s of what appears to be a different race where the Pista gets ahead at first and the 720s claws back the gap. The Pista isn’t a dragster so this is only partially interesting. I really would like a side by side track test of both.
The tarmac does not seem ideal, so the initial start might just be about better or warmer tyres...
Or better launch system.
I wouldnt put too much into these clowns driving these cars.
Here's a link showing an interior view...
While Im not really interested in drag racing, the pista is really impressive considering how potent the 720s is.
Agree as the 720 has approx 780BHP as seen on several dyno video's
Code 40 assembly line ...
Anyone have the full original video to this head-to-head between a 720s and the Pista?
I’m very confident after owning a 488GTB and a 720s that under proper conditions the Mclaren is faster in a straight line. Haven’t driven the Pista yet but I just don’t see how it can be faster especially in the quarter mile. Don’t really care about 0-60mph although I’ve seen the 720s in the very low 2 sec range. Love the Pista but the acceleration of the 720s is a generation (or more) ahead of all the competition.
Acceleration is about power and traction, not much more - the 720S has better acceleration than the 488 GTB mainly because it has more power, it's not a matter of generation.
If the Pista has similar power (and a weight close enough for the start up) as the 720S, and makes the best of it (e.g. with better tyres to help traction), it may be faster than the 720S; but given the objective parameters, not by a large margin in any case. On the other hand the objective parameters give a significant advantage to the 720S vs the 488 GTB.
Next generation is about torsional rigidity that makes the car feel stronger, less resistant to vibration and stiffer. Its about a carbon fiber tub instead of an old aluminum chassis on a supercar. It’s about a car that corners with practically zero body roll and brakes that never fade and offer confidence beyond most supercars. It’s about a new generation that’s lighter NOT heavier. It’s a gearbox that’s lightning fast and exact. It’s also about traction and acceleration that’s hypercar level NOT supercar. I owned one of the first 488GTB and along with many other Ferrari’s, Porsche’s and Lamborghini’s . There IS ZERO chance the Pista is faster than the NORMAL 720s in a straight line and with Trofeo R tires on the 720s it will be very close even on a track. So yes, the 720s is next generation! I don’t say that with a smile as I’m a Ferrari fanboy but the reality is Ferrari needs to stop depending on its name and start stepping it up. Maybe that’s why we are seeing a monumental change in the Ferrari lineup ie. “BB”...
I think you are being a tad unfair towards Ferrari. The Pista and the 720 have virtually identical (or extremely close for that matter) performance in a straight line and the Pista is probably quicker around a track. Not bad for an "old" platform, that utilises aluminium, right? Perhaps equally importantly though, the Pista has a better engine, one with minimal - if any - lag and N/A-like power delivery. It is also, allegedly, lighter on its feet. Thus, even though the 720 is a land based missile, the Pista is no slouch either.
I agree. A couple of weeks ago we were at the Misano track in Italy with our driving group, one member of which had just received his Pista. While there was no serious effort to benchmark performance, in the hands of our Blancpain endurance racer friend, the lap times were consistently close to identical on what is quite a tight circuit. Subjectively the 720S feels more explosive, presumably because it is less torque managed but the Pista's character is recognisably that of a Ferrari - the connectedness, the chassis response and, of course, the engine. The latter is still a some way ahead of 720's unit in terms of sound and responsiveness.
Having said that, having bought the 720s as a stepping stone to the Senna, I am planning on keeping it. On a mountain pass, it is an exquisite experience.
Yes, but the sexy tubs tend to jamb your knees, legs and feet into a narrow pedal box a la Ford GT40 (though not as bad). Something common to all CF tubs I've been in and just can't get comfortable with. A chassis properly structured and utilizing mixed aluminum alloys can be made with great characteristics for the street too and your legs/knees/feet still fit very comfortably.
I’m 6’2 and 205 lbs and have plenty of room in the 720s. I don’t doubt that the Pista sounds better and has better response. I think the 720s with similar tires will be close to the track focused Pista with respect to track times. I think in terms of linear acceleration the 720 is noticeably faster. I look forward to seeing some real world controlled races for comparison. I think Ferrari realizes they need to step up performance too hence the “BB”. Remember the 720s is not track focused and came out a year or so before the Pista so to be this competitive is impressive. I think the LT version will be a monster. Looking forward to Ferrari’s soon to be unveiled response.
What a time to be alive where youtube is considered journalism.
Every car when Doug gives bit throttle "WOW the acceleration" . "I mean thats quick i was only giving it x amount of throttle. "
Moves steering wheel 10 degrees to left, man the steering is so sharp.
Realize I don't doubt your thinking on these performance attributes. Its also not really about a person's physical size because I fit in all or them. For me, I must have a comfortable dead pedal and my knee needs room to bend out a particular way to not rest upon interior structures. It seems the CF tubs must enlarge the behind the fenderwell area which dives the side in toward the pedal box in order to provide that support structure with a thinner/lighter product (basically a polymer resin or fancy epoxy plastic) and handle A-pillar and door attach support. This inevitably encroaches on my outer side. Too many years driving big comfortable cars has left me with more of a GT comfort point I guess. For a street car I think we can continue with strong and thin/light metals and still keep the other parameters in check without sacrificing ergonomics at least those important to me so I don't see it as a mandate to go CF except for hypers. As you seem to, I also enjoy the more engineering based observations of the sport as well. Best.
No different than any "real" car journalist. They all say the same stuff over and over about every car.
my own experience, pista about as fast as my GT2Rs in a speed range from 100-280kmh. 720s faster than both the pista and Gt2 Rs above 200kmh. The Brit is clealry faster. I own boht gt2 Rs and 720s, friend is running the pista with about 1300km on the clock now. So maybe pista is getting a bit faster with more Km on the clock, i hope so.
We expected the Pista to be faster than the 2Rs on the higher speed, due to big wing of the porsche, but it just wasnt.
This is more or less inline with dragtimes video that the 720s makes his ground on higher speeds over the pista