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Ferrari 599 F1 to MT Conversion

Discussion in '612/599' started by SAFE4NOW, Jan 18, 2017.

  1. galt

    galt Formula 3
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    Jun 19, 2005
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    Price seems pretty unrealistic to me. They are basically 50K of a real one that many think was a "high print".
     
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  2. 'Trust'

    'Trust' Karting
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    Jul 31, 2012
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    Yep, I believe the official term is "robotized manual".
     
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  3. mchas

    mchas F1 Rookie
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    +1. Take a 150k car plus $90k to convert gets to around $250k. Car listed for $550k?? If it sells for anywhere near that then this is the greatest business opportunity on the planet. :)
     
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  4. SAFE4NOW

    SAFE4NOW F1 Rookie
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    I am not sure what to think the actual sales price should / could be, this car is on consignment, so owner has set their sales price.

    My personal opinion is that the market will set itself.

    For those that would be interested, what would it be worth to you?

    S
     
  5. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    I think the project was cool but IMO, modern Ferrari's are better off as F1's

    /ducking for cover/

    ;) :)
     
  6. WillskiGT

    WillskiGT Rookie

    Aug 12, 2017
    6
    I would say this OEM conversion doubles the value of the car from the original (pre-conversion) purchase price.

    So a $120-130k driver would be worth $250k, a pristine $200k HGTE car would be $400k, etc.
     
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  7. ZDF_Fan

    ZDF_Fan Karting

    Oct 29, 2013
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    Agreed. We’ll get an idea in a couple weeks where the market stands as one is listed without reserve Sotheby’s Paris... €300/350 estimate - which seems low to me.

    https://www.rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/PA18/Paris/lots/r0013-2009-ferrari-599-gtb/565550



    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  8. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    The French one at Sotheby's is a pretty Plain Jane version with very limited options. Like a lot of late 3 pedal Ferraris.
     
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  9. 'Trust'

    'Trust' Karting
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    Jul 31, 2012
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    Could you rationalize that a bit more? I’m struggling to see that. If the conversion cost all in is $100k + labor, why would a car sell for more than the base + that? Genuinely curious.
     
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  10. WillskiGT

    WillskiGT Rookie

    Aug 12, 2017
    6
    Manuals are worth $500k+ in the current market, and a properly converted manual, done by a dealership using factory parts should be worth pretty close to that mark.

    The one extant manual conversion (subject of this thread) is listed at $549,900, so we shall see. May end up being like chopped Daytona Spiders, where the Spiders were worth way more than the coupes, so a cottage industry sprang up to convert coupes into Spiders in the early to mid 1970s.
     
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  11. LorenzoOO

    LorenzoOO Formula Junior
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    Sep 21, 2017
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    It’s like when a Contractor buys a house spends his time and money doing the upgrades- he’s going to make a profit for time, money and effort , no?
     
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  12. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    I'm Sure I may be a minority but I don't think manuals are the be all, end all. And, value typically comes from originally, not after the fact modification. In the end, the buyer will set the value.
     
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  13. ar4me

    ar4me F1 Rookie
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    I doubt it very highly. My guess would be that it could make a 150k 599 f1 into a 180-200k 599 3-pedal. Why pay close to $500k, if you can buy an f1 for $150k and pay a dealer $50k to convert it...?
     
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  14. WillskiGT

    WillskiGT Rookie

    Aug 12, 2017
    6
    Agreed.

    Well, it costs more than $50k to convert, but it boils down to why the market values a manual 599 so highly. Is it the exclusivity of owning a manual? Or the perceived driving pleasure of a manual? Or is it the exclusivity of owning a factory manual, even though mechanically it is identical to a converted car?

    I suspect it's some combo of the above reasons, but there are others who know the market much better than I do.
     
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  15. ar4me

    ar4me F1 Rookie
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    I think its value is entirely related to it being a RARE factory ORIGINAL 3-pedal car - just like other rare items can take on seemingly absurd values.. If there were as many 3-pedal cars as f1s it wouldn't carry much, if any, premium IMO.
     
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  16. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    One thing at least on which I congratulate everyone involved. Clearly stated it is a factory parts conversion to three pedals, unlike some conversions that tried to be passed off as originals.
     
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  17. SAFE4NOW

    SAFE4NOW F1 Rookie
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    Think of it another way, Mr Lamborghini wanted a Ferrari , that he could not have.

    Mr. Lamborghini went and created the vehicle he wanted...

    Did it cost him the $X,XXX that he sold his version of a Ferrari for or did he charge more, maybe even a premium?

    Sure, someone else can have us perform the same conversion, but isn't there a value to a turn key option being available?

    S
     
  18. SAFE4NOW

    SAFE4NOW F1 Rookie
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    So, you are saying that if you had the means to purchase this 599, you would actually pay less for it as a converted to manual than you would for an F1 variant?

    Assuming ...Apple to Apples....same car - same options - same miles ...

    S
     
  19. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    The 599 is a car that's really been calling me. I hope to add one in a year or two. Regardless of price, I wouldn't want a manual. Makes zero sense to me just like a manual 458 or a 250 GTO F1 :)
     
  20. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
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    I am with you on this one.
     
  21. 'Trust'

    'Trust' Karting
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    I don't think there is any precedence in the market that would back up a claim that converting a 599 to a manual will double it's value, or in this case, more than double. Yes, there is a convenience to it being done, however the general rule of thumb in modified cars in any given market is that you'll recover 50% of the modifications in the sale of the car. Assuming those were all done by caliber shops and well documented. A listing, especially without history of similar sold listings to back it up, is no gauge of what it will actually sell for.

    Bottom line, is if you can buy a car for $150-200k, and pay $100-120k to convert the exact car you want, a $500k price point doesn't make any sense. I don't see anyone who has the sense and way of being in the world to earn what's necessary to buy these cars, spending $180-250k for the convenience of it being done. Doesn't correlate.

    I'd agree here on the overall ending price (the cost would be higher than $50k). Add 50% of the parts cost and you'd be close. I see a $50k mark up as flirting with the line between reasonable and silly.

    As a disclaimer, I had no intend to diver the thread. I LOVE the concept, and am clear it just has to be for the love of the concept for the person doing it.
     
  22. Zarathustra

    Zarathustra Formula Junior

    May 7, 2006
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    Historically, the Ferrari market has been definitively clear about conversions:
    If anyone converts, say a Daytona, into a convertible, it is pretty much meaningless... regardless as to weather it is Richard Straman, Mike Sheehan, or any other "dealer."
    If the Factory changes a car, in period, it is acknowledged.
    If the coach-builder (Pininfarina / Scaglietti) changes a car, in period, it is sometimes acknowledged. I say "sometimes" because alleged Scaglietti Daytona spider conversions are not acknowledged by the market.
    With respect to 599s, the Factory manuals command the auction prices. Conversions will find their own niche, just as Daytona spider conversions are interesting to certain buyers.
    I applaud the great efforts gentlemen go through to convert Daytonas into convertibles and 599F1s into manuals, because the original Factory cars are so rare.
    But no conversion will be valued as an original. .
     
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  23. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper F1 World Champ
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    Well said. I'm on the fence as to whether or not I'd want a manual 599 or an F1, but if you have to have a manual, and you don't care about resale value, then by all means, scratch that itch. But thinking a known conversion will bring the same money as a factory original is wishful thinking, IMO.
     
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  24. dennenhof

    dennenhof Rookie

    Mar 24, 2017
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    Simon Brake
    Steve please could you help me with having my ECUs programmed to manual
    Simon
     
  25. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
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    Does anyone know if the 599 GTO getting a manual swap right now is also using factory parts and being done at a dealer?
     

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