Ferrari = Business Expense? | FerrariChat

Ferrari = Business Expense?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Beanster, Dec 5, 2009.

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  1. Beanster

    Beanster Karting

    Dec 5, 2009
    79
    Mid Atlantic Area
    Full Name:
    Joe
    As a business owner and prospective 360 buyer, I'm curious what circumstance/reasoning legally permits buying a car like this as a business expense.

    What a great first post eh?
     
  2. Aedo

    Aedo F1 Rookie

    Feb 22, 2006
    3,616
    Perth
    Full Name:
    Steve
    How quickly can you say "Tax Audit" :)
     
  3. swilliams

    swilliams Formula 3

    Jun 14, 2006
    1,407
    Bowling Green, KY
    Full Name:
    Scott
    +1

    Its really easy math
    Ferrari+writing off as business expense=Audit

    You better have a car rental agency and be able to prove you rent the Ferrari out.
     
  4. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 30, 2007
    99,790
    #4 GuyIncognito, Dec 5, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  5. Highlow

    Highlow F1 Veteran
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    Dec 3, 2006
    5,532
    LA
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    Tyler
    Just don't put the car in the business' name.

    Anyone remember the story of an Fchatter who got his Ferrari for free by buying his old company. Don't be the guy who sold that company.
     
  6. BIGHORN

    BIGHORN In Memoriam

    Sep 18, 2006
    733
    FLORIDA/NEW MEXICO
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    JOHN F KELLY
    Deductions for business use of cars is limited. 1st yr Depreciation for 2009 is $2960 for used, $10960 for new, decreasing to $4800, $2850 and $1775 in subsequent yrs.

    These amounts need to be reduced for personal use, which includes commuting; IRS will not usually buy 100% business for a passenger car.

    Car deductions also require more tax return disclosure than most other business assets.

    Also, you have the risk of running into the "reasonable and necesary" expense catchall i the event of an audit. The theory (court upheld) is that a Hundai will get you there the sams as a Ferrari

    Summary: it aint worth it!
     
  7. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    106,101
    Vegas baby
    #7 TheMayor, Dec 6, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2009
    Just buy the freaking car and enjoy it. Leave accounting out of it. They make no economic sense whatsoever.

    They make perfect sense when you're sitting in the driver's seat.
     
  8. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,596
    Gates Mills, Ohio
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    Jon
    Indeed it did.

    Best law enforcement documentary every, IMHO.
     
  9. MBFerrari

    MBFerrari F1 Veteran

    Jul 2, 2008
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    #9 MBFerrari, Dec 6, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Bite your tongue Bullfighter - as a 328 guy I am disturbed by your comment. :p
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  10. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 8, 2005
    78,876
    Las Vegas Nevada
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    Jerry
    What about a breadvan ?

    ;)
     
  11. Beanster

    Beanster Karting

    Dec 5, 2009
    79
    Mid Atlantic Area
    Full Name:
    Joe
    Humor me for a moment.

    There are surely many companies in world that offer their executives a company car (some nicer cars than others). It's a one time business expense to get "talent" and keep it.

    So, what if I told my boss (that's me) that I wanted to leave the company. And my boss told me that he would buy me a Ferrari if I agreed to stay with the company because I am such a dedicated staff member.

    Would he not write off the car on the books?

    I'm not suggesting I would do it but surely it has been done.
     
  12. Hawkeye

    Hawkeye F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 20, 2009
    8,177
    Yea, I would not go in this direction. Search the IRS limitations on fringe benefits and you'll get into mileage limitations and other restrictions. Most likely, after your audit, the value of the Ferrari would be added as income and you'll pay the tax one way or another, plus penalties. Put it in your company name, get in an accident and then your balance sheet becomes mouth watering reading for the attorney of the other driver (regardless of fault). You're most likely a target defendant anyway (because of your income) no sense in making it easy or fun for somebody looking to clean your clock. I vote no.
     
  13. Jackmb1

    Jackmb1 F1 Rookie

    Dec 27, 2005
    3,329
    Not worth the headaches that come with doing it that way.
     
  14. BIGHORN

    BIGHORN In Memoriam

    Sep 18, 2006
    733
    FLORIDA/NEW MEXICO
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    JOHN F KELLY
    Non cash compensation is treated same as cash- you pay tax on it. Corporations cant make "gifts" to employees.
     
  15. smj113

    smj113 Karting

    Oct 23, 2007
    190
    Philly Suburbs
    If you put your company log on it and use it for advertising and promotional events, it would be a little easier to justify. It is also better to lease a company car rather than purchasing it. If the car is leased, then 100% of the expense can be depreciated (assuming 100% business use). I too would be hesitant to say 100% unless it can be documented.
     
  16. BIGHORN

    BIGHORN In Memoriam

    Sep 18, 2006
    733
    FLORIDA/NEW MEXICO
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    JOHN F KELLY
    IRS Rev Proc 2009-24 requires that a taxpayer who leases a luxury car for business has to include an amount as specified in 2009-27; Sec 4.03 in income to partially offest the business use deduction.

    The Govt has seen most tax savings tricks by now and has implemented counter measures.

    Man, I love it when clients tell me about the foolproof tax avoidance scheme they heard about in a bar!
     
  17. mousecatcher

    mousecatcher Formula 3

    Dec 18, 2007
    2,116
    san mateo, ca
    But at the end of the lease you hold no interest in the car, whereas if you own the car you can recover the difference between the allowed deductible vs the lease deduction when you sell the car. So for corporations leasing is better but for sole proprietorships, one-man LLCs and the like it is financially better to buy the car unless you need the cash flow or unless you predict severe depreciation.
     
  18. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    This is it in a nutshell.......maybe a few can post here if they have truly "made it work"...

    But given the fun of an audit of any kind the LAST thing I would enter into any part of a Tax Return is the word Ferrari, and I use and enjoy my car on business and in many Charity related aplications...

    I just take the standard mileage deduction....LOL!
     
  19. vipermann123

    vipermann123 Formula 3

    Jun 13, 2005
    1,786
    Irvine, Ca
    Full Name:
    Uzy Malik
    BE WARNED!!!!...... Tax Audit

    I know a guy who said his porsche was for "Marketing and Advertising".
    During the Audit, the IRS said "Unless you have company name on the door"...FAIL.

    He had to pay up.

    Honest advise...Don't do it unless you want to get audited.

    Thanks,
    Uzy
     
  20. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

    Feb 6, 2009
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    Mike
    Good point. Unless you own a auto rental company, I would find it difficult to be able to pull this off successfully.
     
  21. msdesignltd

    msdesignltd Two Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 17, 2003
    20,282
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    Michael
    By pass that crap and make your payment on Amex...have a lease company put it in as a payment with no descrip...Just a car lease

    Amex is T and E..

    not that I would do such a thing.
     
  22. WJGESQ

    WJGESQ Formula 3

    Dec 30, 2004
    1,477
    Get the car "wrapped" with your business logo. Might look goofy, but it would get attention and go a long way towards legitimizing the deduction.
     
  23. smj113

    smj113 Karting

    Oct 23, 2007
    190
    Philly Suburbs
    #23 smj113, Dec 8, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The logo is key to making this work. Also, if you own the car, depreciate it over time and then re-sell the car, the depreciation will get factored back in on your taxes. I believe that it is called "recaptured depreciation". talk to an accountant.

    Lots of companies have made this work before, just not with a ferrari. It can be done, you just have to make sure that you actually use it for a few promo events so you can justify it to the IRS.

    A hummer is expensive too. You wouldn't have to go nearly that far with the graphics to make it "advertising"
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  24. wingfeather

    wingfeather F1 Rookie

    Feb 1, 2007
    3,653
    rock bottom
    You will also have to explain the corporate ownership at resale time. Some people will see that on Carfax & immediately think "rental car".
     
  25. Analog Kid

    Analog Kid Karting

    Nov 29, 2005
    116
    Connecticut
    Full Name:
    Edward
    Back in the 80's my dad used to get a new company car as compensation every 2 years. He had a Porsche. Now, this was the 80's. The company didn't get audited, but today's world is much different.

    Since my business is photographing just Ferraris I've considered this. It might work, but it would significantly raise my odds of getting audited. In the end, it wouldn't be worth the savings in taxes for the headache of an audit.
     

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