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Ferrari carbon brakes versus Porsche composite brakes

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by acw, Nov 7, 2003.

  1. acw

    acw Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
    122
    #1 acw, Nov 7, 2003
    Does anyone know if the Carbon brakes that are standard with the Stradale and I believe the Enzo are in fact made from the same technology (Brembo??) as Porsche Composite Brakes aka PCCB?

    The fact is, I'm experiencing some issues with my GT2 brakes and apparently, many other owners are complaining about them. It is bad enough that I would not want to buy another car featuring that technology.

    I have a Stradale on order and would appreciate any info about this...

    Thanks!

    ACW
     

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  2. wazza

    wazza Formula Junior

    Oct 9, 2003
    614
    #2 wazza, Nov 8, 2003
    I also have a Stradale on order (Should be delivered mid November).
    As far as I know the carbon brakes are fitted as standard.
    I do hope there is not going to be a problem with them
    that would just spoil the whole experience.

    There has been lots of previous posts on the matter you may want to look back through the archives. Including a very good post on how to bed in carbon brakes properly. How the get a heat cycle through them to bed them in properly to extend there life.

    All sounds very compicated to me and hasn't hepled with my reservations.

    So far I not seen any posts from anybody about carbon brake wear from an owners personal experience.
    Not sure if anybody has actually got delivery yet.

    I'm sure we'll here soon enough.

    In the mean time just hope and pray.

    I will certainly post any thoughts when mine get here.

    Good luck.

    Wazza
     
  3. WCH

    WCH F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Mar 16, 2003
    5,179
    #3 WCH, Nov 8, 2003
    "In the mean time just hope and pray."

    Amen.

    Also check the rennlist.com 996 turbo forum, if you haven't already. Doesn't sound good.

    At least they look good - saw them in person for the first time yesterday, the front rotors are enormous.
     
  4. acw

    acw Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
    122
    #4 acw, Nov 8, 2003
    I'm one of the rennlist member that reported some PCCB issues. I have read, with great interest, the previous fchat thread on this topic, however, it is still unclear whether or not Ferrari Carbon brakes are made of the same material as Porsche PCCB brakes.

    I'll be happy to summarize my PCCB experience here. To start with, these brakes are not as good as the steel brakes in the street. A few weeks ago, I have tracked my gt2 at Laguna Seca which, granted, is hard on brakes. After 2h one of the front pad started to fall apart. There was still about 5mm of pad but the pad material separated from the pad backing.

    After these 2 hours at the track, my rotors have a few cracks and roughness. The dealer claims that they are fine, however, the car does not brake as well as it use to, and I have no doubt that if I track the car again, I will damage the rotors. As a comparison, I have done about 30 track days on my previous 996 TT with steel brakes and a set of pad was good for about 4 track days.

    The bottom line with PCCB is that it is not as good as a traditional steel setup. Also, it cannot be tracked unless you are ready to replace parts very often (1 rotor cost $8k).

    The only option if I want to track this car again is to replace the rotors with a steel setup and keep the composite rotors for the next owner.

    I don't think I will take delivery of stradale if I have to go through this again.

    AW
     
  5. acw

    acw Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
    122
    #5 acw, Nov 8, 2003
    I have just compared Porsche and Ferrari's marketing on the subject. Porsche claims a 50% weight saving while Ferrari is claiming a 16% in weight saving.

    Hopefully the ferrari carbon brakes are different.

    AW
     

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  6. Stickanddice

    Stickanddice Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2002
    2,473
    #6 Stickanddice, Nov 8, 2003
    Interesting track analysis. Its the first time of heard of the Porsche brakes being so poor.

    Carbon brakes will not stop as well because they only do their best stopping when hot. They are supposed to be good and reliable because they can withstand higher temperatures, are much lighter and grip like glue (when hot). Carbon composite brakes were prototyped for street use but never fully implemented a few times before because they were simply too inconvenient. In regular street use, the brakes will never get hot enough to really make the carbon stick. I was under the understanding that the Porsche brakes addressed a lot of these issues and put out a great set of brakes. I know other owners and not a single complaint.

    Cheers
     
  7. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,603
    Dallas, TX, USA
    #7 Brian C. Stradale, Nov 8, 2003
    Can you describe the procedure (if any) that you followed to bed in (or break in) your Porsche brakes?? One theory is that many of the problems are associated with bedding-in procedure.

    Thanks.
     
  8. acw

    acw Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
    122
    #8 acw, Nov 8, 2003
    I followed a standard procedure which involved longer and longer stop and some brake cooling. I wish this was all caused by poor break-in. Given the numberous PCCB owners that have experience issues, I doubt this is the case.

    But again, my real question here is does anyone know for sure whether or not Porsche PCCB are the same as the Ferrari carbon brakes?

    Thanks

    AW

     

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