Ferrari Classiche - How Respected Is It? | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Ferrari Classiche - How Respected Is It?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Rossocorsa1, Jul 18, 2018.

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  1. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
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    #51 thorn, Jul 27, 2018
    Classiche is a lot like CarFax. It tells you some things, but it doesn't tell you everything. The problem that results is owners/buyers who believe those reports are a complete endorsement stating "flawless car and/or flawless history." In reality, this "full passing grade" may actually obscure something about a particular car that needs to be known.

    So take it for what it actually is, and what it is not.
     
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  2. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    #52 Dave rocks, Jul 27, 2018
    Interesting point.

    The difference being, Carfax takes info reported to them at face value. They don't have a committee of experts that review and evaluate the information.
     
  3. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
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    #53 thorn, Jul 27, 2018
    Quite true. But I've seen Classiche cars offered for sale that - while perhaps completely "original spec" - made me wonder what the heck the expert committee cares about, and don't care about. It's great that an expert noted that the original radiator is still installed in a '77 308, for example - but troubling when it appears the original hoses are also present.

    I'm not saying that Ferrari's intention is that Classiche should be interpreted as "flawless car", but that appears to be the Red Book Recipient's inference at times.
     
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  4. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

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    #54 Natkingcolebasket69, Jul 27, 2018
    Its very questionable...if i have one i would be happy for resale but thats about it...a stock exhaust is terrible on a tr so you change it for an improved tubi and then u shouldn’t have classiche....but u still got it because classiche is awarded at one point in time...
    Nice red book but not sure it makes the most sense...


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  5. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Veteran

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    #55 Rossocorsa1, Jul 27, 2018

    I agree with you, however, considering how many people complain about Classiche certification now, imagine how they would freak out if Classiche started to define “appropriate condition”. It’s a a no win.
     
  6. HotShoe

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    #56 HotShoe, Jul 27, 2018
    In that case you do what everyone else does, rent or borrow an original TR exhaust for the application process/photos.
     
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  7. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

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    #57 Natkingcolebasket69, Jul 27, 2018
    Which shows how bogus this process is, dont you think?


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  8. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Veteran

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    #58 Rossocorsa1, Jul 27, 2018

    It isn't Classiche that's bogus, it's the owners that do that sort of thing. Ferrari isn't to blame for that.
     
  9. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

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    #59 Natkingcolebasket69, Jul 27, 2018
    I beg to differ. The process means very little. In the TR for instance the precats are an awful design, desintegrate with years, the exhaust sound poor and lack power if the car is left stock. It wasn’t a good piece of design; i think the process should be lenient for certain parts.


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  10. HardTen

    HardTen Formula 3
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    #60 HardTen, Jul 27, 2018
    If utilized correctly I think the Classiche Certification is very helpful. For me it is important to know if the car retains its original engine, drivetrain, major components, etc., and if it physically appears as it looked when it left the factory (exterior color, interior, trim, etc.). The expendable items will and should be replaced with time and use. The major items that are photographed and recorded in the red book are easily verifiable with an inspection by a knowledgeable buyer. The Classiche Certification is not the only item to rely on if purchasing a collector type Ferrari, but it is an excellent starting point.
     
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  11. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Veteran

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    #61 Rossocorsa1, Jul 27, 2018

    I understand what you're are saying, but to me that's a separate topic. In order for you to gain the most pleasure out of your ownership experience you choose to make those modifications. That's great and makes total sense. In my opinion you should do those things. But that doesn't mean Classiche should accommodate those who deviate from the criteria. It isn't for anyone who wants it, nor should it be. I own a 355, arguably the most modified modern Ferrari model there is. A very strong percentage (if not most) 355's have had modified headers, exhausts, rear panels, etc. Others, like myself, have gone to great lengths and expense to preserve originality as intended by the factory. It doesn't make one type of ownership better than another, just different.
     
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  12. HotShoe

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    #62 HotShoe, Jul 27, 2018
    Just illustrates that it isn't 100% foolproof. Given human nature and people's propensity to always "work around" the rules it would be wise not consider a Classiche Cert the end all be all. It is just one of many means of validating a car in addition to expert knowledge, PPI, etc.

    Always remember, at the end of the day it's still the car business. ;)
     
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  13. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

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    #63 Natkingcolebasket69, Jul 27, 2018
    I was about to say, maybe an excellent PPI from a ferrari dealer is just as good;)


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  14. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #64 Texas Forever, Jul 27, 2018
    So when your headers break, are you going to replace them with OEM, which will break again?
     
  15. Rossocorsa1

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    #65 Rossocorsa1, Jul 27, 2018
    Mine are fine and yes. Thanks for your concern.
     
  16. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #66 Texas Forever, Jul 27, 2018
    My point is Ferrari is silly to get down to this level of detail. Because Ferrari does little or no product testing, their customers are their quality control. In the F355, for example, Ferrari used Tubi exhausts for their prototypes and then changed to POS headers for production. So, if you drive your car a lot, you have a choice. You can throw the OEM exhausts in the trash can and replace them with parts that work, or you can replace the OEM headers again and again. Just about every model has something wrong with OEM for which owners and independents have developed work arounds. The fuse boxes in 3X8 cars are junk, for example.

    The fact Ferrari penalties real world fixes for their screw ups tells me this is all about the money.
     
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  17. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #67 Texas Forever, Jul 27, 2018
    I think it is great you’re asking questions. But, if you’re seeking support for your own rationalizations, you’re gonna find this is a tough crowd, and for good reason.


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  18. Rossocorsa1

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    #68 Rossocorsa1, Jul 27, 2018
    This is just a polite exchange of ideas. No disrespect here.

    You’ve been active on this forum for many years, so I’m assuming you own a Ferrari(s). If that’s the case, do you desire to have them Classiche certified? If yes, then wouldn’t you prefer the certification means what it says, that it is a verifiable and official stamp confirming that your car is as originally intended when it left the factory? Or, if not, than why does it even matter to you? It seems that most who don’t like the concept of Classiche certification also would never even want it. And, if Ferrari just handed it out to anyone who applied just because they have a Ferrari than what good is the certification? In other words, what’s the point of having a red book if it doesn’t really stand for anything? It should be for the most original examples.

    As for the inferior components and/or issues on certain Ferrari models, of course I understand that. But, if the car is pure and originally intended (for better or worse), than it is. If it’s modified (for better or worse) than it’s modified. Classiche doesn’t exist to reward improvements. Its intention is to certify originality. I get how that bothers some but that’s it’s purpose. Just for arguments sake, let’s say that many 328 owners chose to replace the gear shift knob for whatever reason (let’s say they had a tendency to crack in half). Okay, that’s fine. But, for the purpose of Classiche, like it or not, the cars that should be certified are those that have the correct knobs even though they are inferior.

    You may enjoy modifying your car and so you should. If that’s how you derive the most pleasure from your passion than by all means you should do that. On the other hand, those of us who have a deep passion for preservation, originality, purity, concourse presentation, etc., appreciate that Classiche offers an official factory stamp of originality. By no means is it the only form of accreditation, but it is the only one offered my the actual manufacturer, which is pretty damn cool for owners like me. I recognize it has its shortcomings but frankly, if it were up to me, the threshold for certification would be far more rigid. Still, I like the overall concept.
     
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  19. Rossocorsa1

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    #69 Rossocorsa1, Aug 29, 2018
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  20. Rossocorsa1

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    #70 Rossocorsa1, Aug 29, 2018
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  21. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

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    #71 miurasv, Aug 29, 2018
    ^^^ Customer 250 Testa Rossa 0756TR.
     
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  22. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Veteran

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    #72 Rossocorsa1, Aug 29, 2018
    No question, my favorite car in the show this year. Absolutely stunning.
     
  23. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

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    #73 miurasv, Aug 29, 2018
    I must say looking at the pictures and the video that I have a new admiration for the Pontoon 250 Testa Rossa. 0754TR parked next to it, also a Customer 250 Testa Rossa, looks great too.
     
  24. Rossocorsa1

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    #74 Rossocorsa1, Aug 29, 2018
    There actually were not many Ferrari’s in the racing class this year at Pebble Beach, which I was surprised to see. Still, those present were incredible. Tom Pecks Mondial which won best in class was a show stopper.
     
  25. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

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    #75 miurasv, Aug 29, 2018
    0756TR.

    Works Prototype 250 Testa Rossa 0704TR wore the same plate number at the 1958 Nurburgring 1000 KM. Pic Walter Baeumer.


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