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Ferrari Competizione GT cars (1989-20xx) market

Discussion in 'Challenge/GT Cars' started by tomgt, Nov 24, 2018.

  1. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    As I see many modern GT cars for sale and think this is a good thread to talk about prices.
    Bearish, bullish or is the market flat?

    What makes the prices go up/down? Low volume, high demand? New Club Competizioni GT by Ferrari?

    2018: 348 GT with no BIG history: 170.000 euro

    2017: 360 GTC 250.000 euro
    2018: 360 GT 210.000 euro
    trend down?
    20 even numbered made + challenge car conversions

    2017: 550 GTC 400.000 euro
    2018: 550 GTC up?
    3 made

    2017 430 GT2 450.000 euro
    2017 430 GT2 400.000 euro
    2018 430 GT2 650.000 euro
    too many made?

    2011: 575 GTC 300.000 euro
    2017 575 GTC 1.500.000 euro
    trend up, because works cars and V12?
    12 made

    2018: 458 GT2 with Le Mans history 500.000 euro
    40-41 made
    Will they go up? True race car, not for the faint of heart. Is a 488GT3 better/easier?

    348GT-360 NGT-GT-GTC are not works cars.
    from 430 on are works cars.

    F40GT, non are works cars (CSAI-GT/GTE are allowed in Club Comp. GT), F40LM is a works car.

    Big differences in history and originality might be a big factor.

    Share your thoughts!
     
  2. gbutler

    gbutler Formula Junior
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    I don't understand some of your comments and model comparisons;

    For instance, you cite a 360 GTC at 250k EUR and then a 360 GT at 210k EUR and say trend is down???? The 360 GTC is a much rarer car than the 360 GT and in my opinion will always command significantly more than a 360 GT ---- so in my opinion not good data points to say trend is down!

    As for the 430 GT2 - those cars are made by Michelotto --- Ferrari didn't make a 430 GT3 or GT2 - which would you rather have - a Michelotto car or a Kessel GT3? There is a huge difference in price between a 430 GT3 (can be bought for 100k USD) and a GT2, and I have seen production numbers as high as 53 GT3's just from Kessel racing alone!

    And I think you have to also be careful about what you define as a works car - I could see not calling a 360 N-GT a works car, but would a 360 GT be a works car? It was made by Michelotto but received a Ferrari SN and was sold by Ferrari's corse clienti program. And you say all 430's are works cars - that is not correct! (unless once again we define a works car as one produced by Michelotto but having a Ferrari SN and sold by Ferrari, like the 360 GT.

    I think before we discuss values we have to be clear on what these cars are, who made them, who sold them, how many were produced, the modifications required to get to a GT3 or GT2, etc. And then you factor in race history, which makes a huge difference in value. The way I see it, when you really dig into what a car is, it's history, who made it, etc most if not all of the pricing falls in line and makes sense. What I do see is a lot of misunderstanding about what each of these models are though.
     
  3. gbutler

    gbutler Formula Junior
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    But I do think it's a great idea to start a thread about pricing on these cars! It's a very interesting subject.
     
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  4. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    The 360GT(incl GTC) were introduced by Ferrari (Press) so I would say works cars (built by Michelotto)
    430GT3 = Kessel, but also works because Ferrari was involved in the project. Just look at the 430GT3 documents/manuals etc
    430GT/GTC = works (built by Michelotto)
    F40LM = works (built by Michelotto)
    F40GT/csai GT/ GTE = all built by Michelotto, works? Yes and no. It is a long and difficult story.
    348GT/LM = built by Michelotto, most were challenge cars but not all. Iirc SpA was not involved in the racing/gt project.
    F355 Competizione = 1 made, works (at the factory)
    550GTC = works, N Technology
    575GTC = works, N Technology
    458GT3 and GTE/GT2 = works, Michelotto
    488GT3 and GTE = works, Michelotto

    Correct me if I am wrong.
    About the 550GTC: I do not know if Italtecnica was involved with the first 550s.

    Yes sometimes comparing apples to oranges :)

    It is interesting why you want to pay 250k for a 348GT which has no big history or no history at all and not a works car either where you can have a 360GT or a GTC!

    What makes a car desireable?
     
  5. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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  6. Ferrari 308 Vetro

    Ferrari 308 Vetro F1 Rookie
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    #6 Ferrari 308 Vetro, Nov 25, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
    Nice idea with the thread Tom, but I dont know why you are posting so many, really, so many wrong things, details, numbers and most important prices? You know it better and you writing here those screeeming wrong details and numbers.

    Dont know what you want to say to us with this wrong things.

    As many of you know, I owne, owned and traded a lot of these very special cars, I really love them and cant let this stand here as it is.

    Works car, no works car, it is so simple and we had this here many times. When I have some more time to anser I will do.

    BUT as it was written here 80%vare WRONG believe it or not :)



     
  7. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    #7 tomgt, Nov 25, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
    No words for this!
    If you know so well. Come with details, serialnumbers and prices!
    I challenge you! :)
     
  8. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    Here is a good example:

    1994 Ferrari 348 GT/C LM
    Sold For €437.000
    Inclusive of applicable buyer's fee.
    September 2017, RM Sothebys Auctions

    2017: ex owner: “Price we need for the car: 600.000 €”. (Up to at least June 2017)

    They got a little over 360.000€ for the car. That is 40% less!!

    This is no fiction!

    Same as a 550GTC that sold for 400k€ in 2017.

    What is fiction about that?

    Ok ok a trader/broker want to tell the world otherwise. I understand. Make money on your investments.

    This thread is just about where does the market go on certain modern GT’s. What makes a 360NGT worth more than a 360CS.
    Would it be better to buy a 488GT3 in stead of a 488GTE or a 458GTE.

    Why does the “market” pay more for a 993 cup car than a 360C. Etc

    Peace man
     
  9. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    Ferrari 360 GT #2022 was sold for 355k usd ~312k euro
    Petersen Museum, RM Sothebys

    Found a new owner in the USA
     
  10. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    Your 458GT2 2880 is on the market I see Heinz Swoboda.
    That is your car you not selling yourself?

    Nice history and Goodwood Festival 2017!
     
  11. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    I forgot: you also sold 348GTC 84248
    Perfect!
    Ex MICHEL OPREY, ex 348 Challenge
     
  12. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    More GT market news!
    The 430GT #2456 which sold at the Artcurial auction in Febr 2018 for 417.200 € was sold just recently again!
     
  13. Ferrari 308 Vetro

    Ferrari 308 Vetro F1 Rookie
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    Tom, you are posting and writing so many wrong things, you know it better, why are you doing this? Don't understand, sorry, why are you talking so bad about some cars, whats your problem. Only here in this thread are so many really "fake News" (this fits here), and the strange thing is, you know it better!!!

    Here and on Insta at your accont, wrong and fake news and Infos!

    You own not one single car of these typs you are writing and try constantly to make them bad. Dont understand what you are doing…

    Happy Christmas from Austria to the Netherlands
     
  14. Ferrari 308 Vetro

    Ferrari 308 Vetro F1 Rookie
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    Who saied I sold it?

     
  15. Ferrari 308 Vetro

    Ferrari 308 Vetro F1 Rookie
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    #2886 is 100% not on the market and it's not my car.

    Wrong News!

     
  16. ylshih

    ylshih Global Moderator
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    One of you is talking about #2880 and the other about #2886. Typo or misread?
     
  17. Ferrari 308 Vetro

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    Both are not on the market

    At the moment only one 458 GTE ex works is for sale here https://www.janluehn.com/stock


     
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  18. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    Does it matter, value wise, if a factory car was built by Michelotto or Kessel?
    430 GT3
    458GT3

    Not sure how many 458GT3s have been built in Lugano.
     
  19. MuratC

    MuratC Formula Junior

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    Kessel doesn't build any cars. They are a Ferrari dealer and a racing team. They just buy the cars from Ferrari and maintain them
     
  20. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    They did built cars: Racing Car SA, Grancia, CH
    430 GT3 and 458 GT3
     
  21. Ferrari 308 Vetro

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    MuratC, 430 GT3 was built by Kessel (as Tom saied), Michelotto built the 458 GT3 - You know this Tom, why are you posting wrong infos?

    Don’t understand...
     
  22. redwood

    redwood Karting

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    I thought only MIchelotto built 458GT3.
     
  23. Ferrari 308 Vetro

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    True yes, 458 GT3 was built by Michelotto. Only 430 GT3 bei Kessel.

     
  24. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    Correct I got the info today that Kessel did not manufacture any 458.
    You can find their logo and contacts on Ferrari documents. They also had a 458 website.
    So parts and “dealer” only
     
  25. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    430 GT2 #2604 was sold for 350.000 usd rm sothebys Scottsdale 2019

    430 GT2 #2440 was sold for 225.000 usd in 2017 Rm sothebys Auburn
     

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