I am new to this forum seeking advice on which ferrari to purchase This will be my first ferrari ever (like a dream come true since I have been a kid), so I want to chose the perfect one. I currently drive a couple of interesting cars especially a SLS cabrio which I enjoy driving but doesn't have the same "passion" as a ferrari can deliver. This car won't be my daily driver (even though both could work) Last summer I test drove a 458 coupe and loved it, amazing gear box, engine sound, engine just loves/needs to rev. The interior was also well designed and put together. I wanted something a bit more unique so my dealer told me to wait and test drive a 458 speciale once he received his test model. This was done 2 weeks ago....I didn't find the speciale that "special" if I can say. The inside is very simple (normal some will say it's stripped out for racing), adding the stereo doesn't really fit the style of the doors, a bit cold inside without all the carpets etc... altogether I didn't find the inside amazing. The driving now, it's not as hardcore as I though and it can certainly be used as a daily driver, the engine sound seems quieter than the normal 458, or at least a different sound. I read a lot about the car's improvements; gearbox isn't easy to see/feel the improvement, the extra horsepower isn't noticeable on a normal drive, not convinced about all the aerodynamic package. I wasn't as impressed with the car as I had expected, maybe I was expecting too much out of it. The dealer seeing this gave me the keys to an F12, now this feels and drives very differently. The inside is absolutely perfect. The engine is incredible, the amount of power is almost frightening and for a V12 it revs easily. It's doesn't feel as nimble as 458, maybe requires more driving skills than I have. The torque is what impressed me the most over the 458. Compared to the 458 Speciale, the F12 felt a lot faster which on paper shouldn't be the case as the 0-60 is 0.1 faster than the F12 (not that I care about this). Now most of you probably think: "just get the F12 as it's the one you liked the most". But the 458 Speciale is Special (may keep higher residuals, even if it's not limited or numbered), maybe matches my age better also, I can put most of the options back into the car which have been taking out and finally would compliment the SLS more as this is already a GT. If any of you had a choice, which one would you get? If ordered soon, either car would be delivered in May.
I have an F12 (among a number of other exotic cars) and absolutely love it. I have driven on a track back to back with 458 and don't for a second believe the arm chair drivers who state the F12 isn't as "sporty" because it is a "GT" (whatever that really is supposed to mean). It is phenomenal on the track and is very practical everyday. So don't get caught up in the false debate of whether the F12 is more GT and the 458 is less GT and therefore suggest a difference in capability. The differences are non existent on the street and probably so on the track except for the top tier drivers. At the end of the day, it is really a decision on whether you want the more exotic looking mid engine style of the 458. Everything else is a rationalization. As for the Speciale don't get it to put all the luxuries back in. Get it because you want it hard core! I am interested in one for that reason.
A few weeks ago I was offered the first Speciale to be delivered at my dealer if I gave up my F12...I took delivery of my V12 last week. I could be biased as I've already had three 458's in the past (2 coupes & 1 spyder), but make no mistake the F12 is an awesome car in every sense.
It's really a matter of what you value most in a high performance car. And the owners who respond to your original post will reflect their values. First let me say that you can't go wrong. You are talking about two of the most remarkable vehicles every built for the road. But the cars differ in their nuances and "flavor." Torque is one factor that is immediately appreciated. The 6.3 liter V12 will have more torque especially at lower RPMs, and that is what you remarked about in your post. But the V8 will wind higher and scream like a banshee once it gets up on its power band. It is more short geared than the F12 so is set up to keep its RPMs up as it accelerates. Just a different flavor -- GT car feel vs. more race car feel. The handling of the two cars is different. The 458 is more nimble being lighter and having more rear wheel weight bias, but not hugely so. It is more like a slot car, or even a racing bike. The F12 is more of a traditional GT car, but raised to a high power. Both will oversteer if you turn off enough technology but it seems to me that the F12 comes on oversteer earlier than the 458. The software in the 458 Speciale will let you powerslide the car while the assists are still on. If you drive that aggressively that could be a neat feature for you. The cars sound different to me: the F12 more of a baritone at high RPM and the 458 more of a screamer. The view and ambiance are different. In the 458 you sit cab forward and the road seems to disappear right under your feet. The sight picture is more of that of a race car. The F12 has that long hood in front of you so it is more traditional. The F12 cabin is refined and wonderful. The 458 seems more "space shippy" to me. Once again you can't go wrong. Just sort out your impressions but try to explore each car more fully than just their torque curves.
The F12 will be more usable even if neither will be a daily driver. The Speciale is awesome but to get some of the performance increase, weight was removed in the form of amenities. Adding them back in kind of defeats the intent. A better comparison would be between a 458 and F12. Based on history (Challenge Stradale vs. 360, Scuderia vs. 430), the Speciale is likely to hold its value better than a 458. It's less clear that it will do so better than an F12. Historically, recent V-12 front engine cars (550, 575, 599) held their value less well compared to mid-engine cars, but the F12 is so awesome it may change that. In any event the "perfect" Ferrari is the Ferrari YOU like best and is most suited to what YOU want to use it for. Hard to go wrong with either choice, but if allowed to have only one Ferrari, the F12 would be my choice as between that and the Speciale.
Depends on how you intend to drive either car, and also which one really hits home with you re owning "a Ferrari". For me, F12 hands down. I could drive it longer, be a little more comfortable, and have the looks, fit and feel of a Ferrari V12. The Speciale is more exotic in appearance, and is more of a track car. Ferrari is an irrational purchase in the best of circumstances, so the residual shouldn't be the deciding factor IMHO. Your description of things makes it seem like you really want the F12, and that it feels more special to you. I wouldn't disagree.
The Speciale is a weekend+track toy, the F12 is whatever you want it to be, a convertible excepting. If the F12 were available as a convertible I would have been talking to my salesman about it. A convertible V12 should also hold its value better. Oh well, get the F12. BTW, the SLS interior is a travesty.
I have a 2011 458 and just recently bought a 2013 SLS GT. I think the interior is mercedes level fantastic. I don't like the driver tunnel though. But the rest of the interior I really like. The SLS is fun to drive but shows how far away AMG is from building a true supercar. Ferrari is just so far ahead. The SLS feels to me like if the F12 and the Viper and a Merecedes SL convertible mated. For better and for worse.
All great thoughts so far. My take FWIW: V8 cars: less immediate power apparent when driving but handling more apparent when driving. V12 cars: more immediate power (torque) apparent when driving but handling less apparent when driving. What I mean is both V8s and V12s handle great but the V8s make it easier to feel the nimbleness of the machine whereas the V12s need to be pushed. On the other hand, if you want to get the sense of power that big low torque delivers then the V12 delivers that whereas you have to rev out the V8s and that takes more road and thus more speed. This is how the Ferraris have always been. With the V12s there is more suspension travel to get through (relatively) but once you have it planted the car can really dance. So it comes down to your personality and where you live. Will you get more enjoyment out of putting the power down in lower speeds (F12) or blasting around corners (458)? I do think its very telling that you liked the F12 so much. You are in a special place in life if your first Ferrari can be an F12 or 458 S. As to residual values I think right now either one will hold fairly well in the short run. In the longer run, history tells us one is a V8 and one is a V12 and unfortunately the V12s just don't hold up as well. That said, you buy a Ferrari because you love it not because its the smartest financial move. Final thought- maybe you should consider a 458 Italia. There are many around and some will give you reasonable downside protection. My opinion is whereas the prior series Ferraris (430 and 599 in this case) were sports cars, they took the game to such new levels with these new models that they are more like jr league supercars or maybe they are supercars and cars like the LaFerrari are now hypercars. However you want to say it, you have only good choices so the key is finding which one matches your preferences the best.
What a choice to make! There is really no wrong answer to this, either car is brilliant thus my suggestion would be to the buy the one you like the most. One thing that should sway your decision is your driving goals and by that I mean do you enjoy cross country drives, track days. Ultimately both cars will do either or but I am sure the F12 would be more comfortable over long distances.
It's pretty amazing that you have been offered both a Speciale and an F-12 without having ever purchased a Ferrari before. Not sure where you live, but there must be some uncertainty about future sales by your dealer as both these cars seem to have seriously long waiting lists most places. Congrats on beating the system.
I have observed that age is a factor in this decision. The younger owners prefer the mid-engined sports cars while the older ones are more likely to opt for the V12 often after having already owned the V8s earlier or even currently. So, if starting out with your first ferrari, I would say start with the 458, it is one hell of an emotion stirring car, and then take it from there. May be get a V12 as your second F car.
What I find most interesting about this gentleman's observations is this: apparently on back to back drives the Speciale did not feel faster and more "hard core" vs. the base 458, nor did it sound louder/better. THAT in itself is surprising - it leads me to wonder just exactly what is the Speciale supposed to be, if not a higher performing, more intense 458? Otherwise I think the above posts sum up the 458 vs. F12 differences, which can be summorized as follows: 3400 lbs curb wt and 560 bHP vs. 4000 lbs curb wt with 730 bHP. You feel the curb wt more the harder you drive it (i.e. on the track by an experienced driver). One other thing - the F12 with options is more expensive by some margin. And also, expect the F12 to depreciate the most over time percentage wise - purely due to high initial MSRP, not because it's not a great car. Good luck!
This does not surprise me. When the 458 was launched ferrari said there would not be a scud version, because the standard one is just so good. They lied. But the fact remains that it is difficult to make the 458 more hardcore or sound better. And the lighter weight of the stripped down speciale and the 30 odd extra hp will not be noticeable except in the most extreme driving situation. That's why the speciale is priced as a bargain in Dubai at least. When you add on the price of the standard options on the speciale, vs what these popular options cost on an Italia, there is almost no price difference between the two. For a starter car I do recommend the 458 or 458S over an F12. The V8s are cheaper and more intense.
First of all let me thank-you all for all your replies and very interesting comments about both cars. Below are a few points I live in Switzerland and I think anyone can buy either car very easily without being a previous Ferrari owner. Maybe because we are an important market for the brand or the financial difficulties the rest of Europe is going through. I went to 2 different dealers who quoted me exactly the same waiting time. Also, regarding the Speciale, Ferrari will build as many as they can sell, and that could be a lot knowing that more V8 engines are built on a daily basis over the V12's. 458Dreamer is correct, I believe that my age bracket suits the 458 better (I am in my low 30's). The V12 has an imagine of a more grown up's car. I fully agree on this comment. High revving cars always need to be driving high in the revs, I previous owned a BMW M3 V8, which always had to be revved to get the full potential from the car. I sometimes missed the low range torque which made it much more enjoyable in town, or leave a red light. This is one of the reasons why I like the AMG engines, so much torque and don't have to be revved to enjoy some fun. Especially that we can get fined in my country for not changing a gear early enough. As for resale values, I won't be keeping either cars as the plan is to change reasonably often and upgrade with new ones (F12 Spider/cabrio or a possible GTO version if it ever comes out). This is why I am thinking about this, despite knowing that this is the worst investment ever but brings some much fun and passion. Regarding the SLS, I love the inside, so comfortable, finish quality, GPS, and you have a proper sound system (Bang Olufsen), when will Ferrari make an effort on the Hi-fi systems? The worst element is the gearbox, knowing it's the same that the 458 uses.... it seems a century apart... But the torque from the engine is fabulous, the exhaust...... but doesn't have the same passion as a Ferrari. As for price, there isn't much difference compared from the way I would spec the Speciale compared with the F12... This is why I am considering the F12. After reading all the posts, I think my driving goals are to enjoy the car, it will never be tracked as I don't have time to track it and in Switzerland we don't have tracks (illegal), enjoy long drives down to the south of France, Italy, Germany, France etc..... I think I have ruled out the Speciale. Now just have to decide on the color of the F12.....
Well, the Speciale is a scalpel, whereas the F12 is an axe. They are both very sharp but the scalpel is a precision cutting tool, whereas an axe is a brutal one. The F12 is a straight line beast and not due to the torque alone, but mainly because of the absurd power that it makes high up in the rev range. It's basically an engine with a car around it and not a car with an engine in it. That said it is also very capable around the corners also, even if it is a bit twitchier than the 458. The Speciale on the other hand is a high precision smart missile. Not as devastating down the straights as the F12, but still mind blowingly fast. It's in the twisties that is comes on its own though as it changes direction like a hound. You can't go wrong with either, but if you are after straight line performance and scary thrills then you need the F12, and if you want track/B Road ability and nimbleness the Speciale is your car.
Hi also from switzerland and in the market for an f12. I would be interested in your dealer as it looks pretty quick to me just 4 month wait. In the aeria of Bern i wasnt that succesfull. Would you mind to let me know your dealer, i would get in contact with him to avoid long waiting time. Thanks and mutch fun on your upcoming f car.
Xskier, tried sending yoj a private message but doesn't seem to work. (maybe send me an email: [email protected])
I drove an F12 on COTA as well as several hours in a 458. The F12 felt like a 599 with a smoother transmission. Fun but not as fun as a 458 in my opinion. As for the special holding value look what happened to Scuds in the market place. Buy what turns you on.
