I missed ordering the 488, so am happy the F8 is being built. Sent in my deposit. I would not have been disappointed with a 488, however... Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
As mentioned earlier before, the F8‘s containing a particulate filter is a huge disappointment. Not only I will constantly be thinking the soot will be collected there and has to be burned somehow. Depending on the drive style. Also, it damages the image of this fabulous „engine of the century“. Particulate filter - sounds like filter in the chimney. Ferrari obviously was reluctant - if not afraid - to communicate this feature, for good reasons I would say. Leaving sourness behind.
This is just a sign of the times. I wouldn't let it get in the way of buying an F8. For the length of time most own these cars it won't matter a great deal.
The system would (sound-wise) be designed to accommodate it....like what happened when cats were introduced. If you really want to get rid of these things you'll need an aftermarket tune. But don't forget you still have the EGR where exhaust gas is being recirculated as well so...
Sorry, bad grammar. I just meant if I had ordered the 488, I would not be disappointed to miss out on the F8... Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Seriously? How does bashing people for spending more money for a Ferrari than you spend FOR A NEW FERRARI work in your mind? Yeah, you’ve totally nailed it, the Pista is so we can say we are wealthy, lol.
Really glad the moderator stepped in as other mentioned F-chat is getting clothed by this vs that nonsense and for us who are really interested in the car this get's tiresome. Now we can in a nice manner discuss this beautiful car (yes call me crazy I think it's stunning). Do someone have a firm price indication (starting price) in EU? If it's not to steep above a 488 I am seriously (as mentioned earlier in this thread but I guess that post disappeared fast with a lot of non relevant posts) considering one. I think it's one of the best looking car ever made and within the price range rumoured (let's hope 488 + 2-5 %) there is nothing coming close to how good it looks. I've reached out to my dealer but they won't disclose the starting price (yet I assume). If F8 happens this will be my third f-car along with my current 458. I thought the 488, even though it looks stunning and best looking in it's class until F8 hits the market by a huge margin (don't want to mention other brands as we all know how the threads here in F-chat then goes) and better then my 458, it still looks a bit to similar to the 458 hence never pulled the trigger / could justify cashing out on a second F-car as this is a lot of money for me and I don't have F-U money., The F8 though imo stands out a bit more compared to the 458, or what do you guys that have seen it live think? For the fellow members that went to the auto show and taking the time to post pics here, I think I can say for the most of the forum followers, we are truly grateful that you share your first hand experience with the car. A follow up question on this one to you --> how refreshing did it feel inside, did the minor interior adjustments give it a better solid feel comparable to F12 - 812 feels vs the 458?
I really love the look of the F8 but I am getting concerned about this “particle filter” talk and also wondering about more stringent noise controls. I also don’t like engine start-stop technology on a high performance exotic sports car, absolutely idiotic. I will have to wait until F8 lands in US and I can examine it, listen to it, drive it myself before deciding. Absolutely gorgeous though! Agree, appreciate all the pix! Thx
I was at the show and I think Ferrari did a very good job with the F8. The minor changes are indeed minor but different enough that u notice them. I liked the changes and think it looks "refreshed". You will like the car IMO
The 488 has got start-stop already . They made the best out of it (the regulation) since it can be switched off constantly. Even when restarting the engine, which differentiates Fs from other manufacturers (i.e., it is quite embarrassing in Porsches). Particulate filters are going into almost every direct fuel injection cars . Ferrari had the advantage of being a small scale producer (<10000 units p.a.). They obviously plan to go beyond this border. McL don’t need PF so far,since they don’t use DFI. Lambo needed it but are below 10000...
I just hope they continue that way, I did not have confirmation on how it works on the F8; new regulations may force the system to be on at each start up
Not sure what you mean there as Porsche also has a button just like Ferrari so to turn the feature off. What you are referring to is simply having the default setting programmed to off instead of on. All one needs to do is to request the service tech to do that. With the GT cars the techs automatically do that in the pre-delivery process, as was the case with 488.
The gasolibe particulate filter (GPF) appears to have nothing to due with HELE. Here is an article from the Association from Emissions Control by Catalyst https://www.aecc.eu/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/2017-AECC-technical-summary-on-GPF-final.pdf Conclusion from the release: "Conclusion: GPF is an efficient and reliable technology The Gasoline Particulate Filter is an efficient and durable technology to control ultrafine particles emissions from Gasoline Direct Injection engine without negative impact on fuel consumption and CO2 emissions. The filtration efficiency is not a design criteria for the GPF, the PN Not-To-Exceed limit is. The GPF filtration efficiency increases throughout its lifetime thanks to ash accumulation." There are several ways to employ the GPF and it appears to be a constriction or coating in the pre-muffler or catalyst that uses ultra-fine filtering and higher temps but over time filters more because of the growing soot cake. I have no idea what this has to do with the F8 but if it does have a Gasoline Particulate Filter (GPF) then its worth a read of the PDF and perhaps research of the Ferrari website to determine implementation and potential impact to what concerns you. Diesels use a similar technology but require a DPF (Diesel Particulate Fluid) reservoir needing routine refilling and an additional injector to spray raw DPF into the exhaust head/collector to wet down the exhaust gases which collects the goo in a reactor that under SW control forces the engine into a restricted exhaust state whereby the reactor is brought to extreme temperature to cook off the soot. This is called a REGEN cycle and it has become the bane of diesel owners spawning an aftermarket industry to illegally remove or modify such menace to performance and reliability. I don't think the F8 uses the diesel implementation (or any) but it would seem if they do implement some form of it, a Ferrari traditionalist would not be happy especially over time. The requirement is based on an EU green manifestation.
Here's a better discussion of GPF development. Shows that exhaust gases are indeed pushed though a particulate filter whose soot clogging over time improves filtration. Backpressure and exhaust temperature is increased. Popular placement of the filter can be in the catalytic converter or a separate downstream reactor. ECU and sensors can provide OBDII monitoring of the system. https://cleers.org/wp-content/uploads/formidable/3/2016CLEERS_Lambert.pdf A brief review of other car forums indicate that some have experiences lower exhaust sound due to GPF. Enjoy.
Lower exhaust sound? The GPF is only a new addition for Ferrari. Other's on car forums have not had the opportunity to test F8 to make any determination. Baseless "forum" talk is just that. Knowing Ferrari is clearly focused on sound have stated F8 has an "improved sound". At this stage I'd be inclined to give the benefit of any doubt to Ferrari until proven otherwise. I'm quite sure F8 will sound very good - possibly even better than Pista for all we know.
Perhaps the research data I linked was too technical or you did not read it. Simply stated, a very fine ceramic filter is employed in a vessel with a plugged end. The exhaust gases are forced to permeate the filter before exiting around the plug. The filter can be lined with catalytic materials to serve dual purpose (catalytic converter and Gasoline Particulate Filter). This is from a recent well presented GPF Development package from Ford Research & Advanced Engineering. Please see the picture below: Image Unavailable, Please Login Based on the implementations seen in the industry sound reduction has become an issue. The data presented has documented lab measured reductions in sound levels due to the very fine scrubbing of the exhaust gases and the fact that the filtering becomes more efficient as the soot builds up which raises temperature. There are also measurement and calculations included for increased backpressure. This is decidedly not "baseless talk". One can make the overall sound louder at the tailpipe perhaps by less restriction later on in the system but this system is no bueno especially to a turbo compare to a system without it. If this reactor was a selectable option for your car you'd have to be a greenie and not an enthusiast to check the box. Not the end of the world but clearly the direction OEMs are going. Best.
I come from a engineering/technical background actually so have no difficulty whatsoever in understanding these things. The point I was making was that Ferrari claims an improvement in sound, and all the forum talk in the world is just that until proven otherwise. Where sound is removed by a catalytic converter or GPF it simply becomes a matter of engineering the muffler accordingly so it does less of the "usual work".
I can see a lot of exhaust mods coming for these new releases, the usual aftermarket suspects must be smiling right about now. Jim
Not so sure about that bc the ecu will know if the Gpf is removed and not everyone wants to tune. Chances are the stock muffler is very close to being just an empty can now.
The last thing these turbos need is an even more muffled exhaust sound. Oh well, I’ll wait to hear it in person before making conclusions.
