Ferrari F80

We are not talking about a porker like the SP3.........

 

That’s the only way you’re going to get a manual V12 mid engined car. Anything else is just not possible for Ferrari, instead of just being not desirable, like a manual version of it.

 

Why? To make mega performance user friendly is an excellent idea for Ferrari’s hyper car line. That’s what their reputation has been based on.

 

Ferrari could have launched a road-legalised 499P, with the same 1200 CV powertrain as found in the F80, and destroy all other hypercars on a race track. It would be a useless road car though. The Valkyrie, as impressive as it may be (and it certainly is), is a seriously compromised road car. Does that matter to its owners? I guess not, but Ferrari's elite clients obviously want a car they can also use on the road, hence the F80. The mere fact that it has Valkyrie-like performance and 296-like road usability is nothing short of a stunning accomplishment. I gather that the W1 will be similarly amazing as a complete package.

 

This sounds good, but the fact is, nobody drives these cars on the road or anywhere else, for that matter. There are currently four LaFerraris for sale on the duPont Registry. They are averaging 241 miles per year.

 

Nobody? Ask our esteemed members here who own some of the big five. Moreover, using a car on the road does not necessarily equate to huge mileage. Even a Sunday drive, once every now and then, can be enjoyable. Then again, there are always flippers, who see these cars as investments, hence what you mentioned. That does not mean that the cars should not be usable.

 

Porsche still offers the GT3 in manual

 

A forum for enthusiasts is even less representative than "flippers." And people selling cars ten years after they were made aren't flippers. "Nobody" isn’t meant literally, of course, but if you want precision, then "90% aren’t driven any substantial amount, so road usability doesn't matter."

 

That is disrespectful towards the engineers who built these cars. It would have been much easier to build a crude machine.

 

I’m totally fine with being called disrespectful toward Ferrari engineers. I’ve experienced many obvious, common issues with Ferrari road cars during track days and various quirks on the street (not that Lamborghini is any better). Even these relatively everyday cars weren’t built for putting on a lot of miles or hard driving, so my opinion of Ferrari engineers is poor. I find the F80 uninteresting (from a detached point of view - I’m not in the market for such an expensive car) because it’s very heavy compared to the Valkyrie. But so few (maybe 0?) owners will drive it hard that it matters as little as road usability.

 

Maybe it will depreciate as fast as mclarens

 

To REALZEUS point, people do drive their ‘big’ cars. For example, in my case over a 6-year period, I enjoyed more than 15,000 km in them. Over another 4-year period (located at a different geography, so different cars), I also added some 16,000 km in other big ones (not halo though).
To Izplayer point, the mileage driven in the more recent big Ferraris (LaFerrari, Icona series) and by extension in the other Big 5 has however diminished in the recent past for various reasons.
Finally, to George330 point, Ferrari needs to be at the pinnacle as time goes on, and evolve and cater for newer and upcoming generations constantly. Plus they have such an extensive and varied back catalogue of amazing Ferraris…
We can only thank them for the thrill and happiness they provided to so many through their machines over so many decades and for always pushing the envelope forward and taking the reluctant ones among us, somehow, along with them…

 

Exactly, this type of customer eager for digitalization jumps from one brand to another, according to what they consider more "digital, hi-tech". This management is prioritizing a volatile clientele, and leaving aside the loyal customer profile.

The issue is not just economic.
The problems/gremlins with hybrids bring immense losses, and yet the management fight fiercely for this, even not launching a similar model without a hybrid, with less maintenance and gremlins, and which could even have a higher price/higher profits. Because they want to "protect" the hybrid model at all costs.

 

Do you happen to know how many problems Aston Martins present?
So, you are in the market for a Valkyrie, then?

 

I never said they should do that and I will be buying the F80. However if you ask me whether I would prefer something like the T50 the answer is yes. I also have the self-awareness to admit that my opinion is irrelevant to Ferrari and they are doing great without it
One thing I can tell you though is I wont be buying an electric one. Somehow the engineering excellence of producing the worlds greatest electric motor doesnt do it for me.

 

You certainly have your own reasons that I respect, but why do you feel compelled to do so ?

 

To go to the cars and coffee ?
Because with this kind of car, if you're not at 250 km/h, you don't have any sensations, so there's much better for the Sunday ride...
The magic of the previous ones was there, it was not necessary to drive at 200 km/h in an F50 to get your fill of sensations !
The reality is that these are speculative products that will be waiting in the freezer.
Even in Monaco, I don't even see a simple tdf from time to time, so hypercars...

 

More typically those Rolls Royce convertibles with the driver's door that opens front to back.
Though Charles does have his fleet of Ferrari models; I bet he doesn't get any tickets for excessive 'noise'...

 

"Just not possible" - come on - they got 100kg more to work with than the GMA T.33.
OK - put the engine in the front then. Anything is possible - even for Ferrari.

 

It doesn’t even get past first base! The GMA V12 is 4 litres, the Ferrari V12 is 6.5 litres and a lot heavier. Plus it comes with extra power needing more cooling and bigger brakes. They aren’t going to develop a brand new 4 litre V12 engine and they aren’t going to buy one in. Their quality requirements will be off the scale compared to Cosworth and the cost of developing a new engine family is huge. Given the regulatory threat of the future, there is no chance the business case for this can be made to stack up unless the volume on offer is huge and can fit into the next few short years. Which it isn’t and it won’t.

Then there’s second third and fourth base…. Their engineers are not geared up to do what the GMA people do (forensically remove weight) in the same way as GMA engineers are not geared up to do what Ferrari engineers do (build cars that have propelled the brand and customer base to stratospheric heights, never before seen in the 150-year old auto industry), their production facilities are designed to produce a certain type of car at a certain price - for all others the price is in the low-volume, out-of-reach stratosphere, and then there are the regulators. They want cats, gpfs, crumple zones etc etc. It really is impossible for them to make sense of a <1,400kg, V12, manual car, wherever the engine is placed. The SP3 is basically the closest thing and was never going to be a manual.

You could argue why not a ‘low’ price, V6, manual, aluminium car at 1,500 kg. And then they have to beat the Porsche 911…

 

The Mythos looks 1000% better. shame this design didn't get more flushed out into a production run...Kinda like how it's a shame the J50 only had a crazy small run....What could have been...

 

McLaren's biggest problem is that they make cars for themselves that no one really asked for (I'm looking at you, McLaren GT) LOL. I do hope though that they put the V10 from the Solus into something else, that would be fun. But to your point about the LaF vs the P1...People without firsthand experience of the cars don't realize is that the P1 was a very buggy car with a LOT of QC issues, especially compared to the LaF and the 918...When it worked it was great, but as you pointed out it spends a lot of time in the workshop.

But the big thing a lot people are missing about the $1+ price tag on hypercars...Buyers are not dropping that money for performance. It's about buying into an exclusive club for highly unique experiences, insight and partnership with a company and unmatched networking. Dropping $1M+ on a car from the factory goes far beyond the car itself...you're buying exclusive access, a cool car just happens to be thrown in with the deal.

 

For a Sunday drive, a Valkyrie is perfect. A supercar's purpose is not grocery shopping.

 

If Ferrari wants to develop a 4.0L V12, it has all the means to do so. There is nothing that a sports car brand can do that Ferrari cannot do with great quality.

In fact, a 4.0 V12 would be light and would work much more smoothly with hybridization, without needing to be suffocated by strong turbo inductions to achieve great numbers.

Not to mention that, let's face it, it would sell like hotcakes, it would be a resounding sales success. A 4.0L V12 could easily be inserted into the models in the line, with the appropriate adjustments for each one.

But there are reasons, besides economic ones, that make this management fight fiercely for the turbo-hybrid V6.

There are car manufacturers that are complying with the regulations with tears. This is not the case with this current management. They are doing it with a big smile.

 

In my experience, networking opportunities isn't a reason why people buy hypercars. In fact, the owners I know are private about their work and just want to talk about cars, family and their other passions. It's refreshing.