Ferrari F80

Always liked Linda. But Tatjana wasn't bad either.
Unbelievably beautiful and gorgeous indeed. And no black stripe anyway.

Marcel Massini

 

In the first video, appears a 499P LMH on the track and its sound is audible. It is a fact that there are still few records of the F80's sound, but the the 499 P, whose power-train inspired that of the F80, appears to sound louder and less boring.

In the second video it's possible to hear the V12 NA non-hybrid engine of the Aston Martin Valkyrie AMR LMH that will participate in Le Mans 2025 edition. The difference in the sound emitted by the 499P and the Valkyrie IMO is something so evident even for those who don't have a keen ear.

If in the next Le Mans edition the Valkyrie non hybrid, RWD, fails to outperform the Ferrari 499P, 4WD, hybrid and turbo, I won't be surprised. However if the Valkyrie will be able to show that is a competitive car it will keep alive the dream that it is still possible to compete in this event at the highest level with a car equipped with a classic NA engine, not electrified. Despite of what will happen on the next race the Valquyri's will give a totally different symphony from the ones of the other cars that will enter this race.

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I am not misunderstanding anything. You are choosing to ignore the evidence I posted from Scuderia.

As you can see I went on to say IF CORRECT, this is pretty damning, as in damning evidence. Your only evidence is some guy's interpretation in an old thread, while in that same thread someone asked the question:

The reply you quoted is not an answer to this question, it does not explain anything, it is an interpretation that I was going to post myself based on previously used systems, but then I looked to see what the part actually is, and I found the answer at Scuderia which I then posted, which says the sound generator uses a speaker. This is not imagining "there could be an artificial electronic sound-generating speaker inserted into the intake manifold with microphones around the engine", this is directly quoting Scuderia - who claim to have in-depth knowledge of the parts they sell - that such a device is in fact used. And it is not "inserted into the intake manifold", it is inserted in a pipe that is functionally sealed off from the rest of the intake system, there is no meaningful airflow in that pipe, it is there only to transmit sound. It does not interfere with the 'pretty important job of the intake system' in any way as long as there are no air leaks.

So tell me, do you know better than Scuderia? I too find it hard to imagine there being a speaker in the sound generator, that's why I said IF TRUE, but that is what the information tells us, and that is why in the 599 GTO such a part - which was much smaller - was called the MEMBRANE - and that is why in the later cars the bigger part is called the SOUND GENERATOR. That is not a translation/meaning issue as someone postulated in that old thread.

Yes, I was surprised too, but according to Scuderia it is the correct name because it artificially generates sound. So there is no misunderstanding on my part, there is disbelief/denial on your part.

 

It will be simply a translation issue as the poster from 2016 highlighted. I have worked with parts catalogues from many manufacturers and there are many things lost in translation. For example, a Japanese firm who sells a ‘Rip Spoiler’. Which is in actual fact a lip spoiler (not a joke!)

 

You are free to believe what you want, but it's not a good look.

 

I will say I have found no evidence for electronic connections to this part, not in the manuals nor visually (do a google image search for "ferrari 310096"), but I can't ignore Scuderia saying it is a speaker, and there is also such a thing as a passive radiator.

If it is merely a passive radiator then it is sort of a glorified membrane, and not all that artificial.

 

https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/ferrari-wants-to-pipe-engine-intake-noise-direct-to-your-face

This is another article from 2018 that talks about how Ferrari (at that time) planned to develop their ISG diaphragm idea into the future. It also gives a basic explanation of how it works. The intake system has to be sealed but the point of the diaphragm is to let sound but not air from the pipe into the cabin. On the 2016 thread Solid State mentioned that this is a risk because if it fails you end up with muck in the engine - a very fair point. But they seem to have been reliable since Ferrari started using this idea. To put an electronic sound speaker into the intake pipe, when there are already plenty of expensively designed ones already in the cabin, is senseless if it were even do-able.

 

What on earth are you talking about.

 

It would be great to see the Valkyrie win - not as great as the 499P but great none-the-less. Its chances of winning are only to do with power, weight, CoG, suspension, drive ability, reliability and fuel efficiency. V12, hybrid, even diesel (as the Audis of the past), whoever gives the best numbers probably wins.

 

You see, now we are getting somewhere, you are providing evidence. I never claimed there was an active speaker playing electronic sound, I was objectively posting information with all sorts of disclaimers, while you accuse me of misunderstanding. I am well aware of how sound tubes work, but if Scuderia says there is a speaker in the sound generator, I have to take that seriously and offer an explanation, one being that they have developed the membrane/diaphragm into a passive radiator. Judging by the prices of the old membrane and new sound generator, they are pretty much the same, which further supports the idea that is not an active speaker, but merely a passive radiator.

 

I agree

 

me Also, but I alap loked Cindy, no Blake stripe, just a small spot above the lip .

 

The word "speaker" is sometimes (incorrectly) used instead of the word "resonator". All evidence suggests that this is what it is about.

 

I dream of seeing the Valkyrie win and repeat the feat of the McLaren F1. That being said, it was explained to me that there is a subtlety in the rules that makes it impossible for the first year for the general classification... I'm going to ask him that again

 

Speaker is a correct term for a passive radiator. If you want to call a passive radiator a resonator, that is fine too because a "passive radiator resonates at a frequency determined by its mass and the springiness (compliance) of the air in the enclosure", but some people might want to reserve the term resonator with regards to intake systems for the Helmholtz resonator, which is used for noise reduction and improved performance.

As for translation issues, the Italian words are as follows if Google Translate is not misleading me:

sound generator - generatore di suono
(loud)speaker - altoparlante
resonator - risonatore

If the parts list says Sound Generator I don't see how this could be an accident or 'lost in translation'. Ferrari wanted to name it a Sound Generator, and it is a very different part (size, shape) from the part found in the 599 GTO, which was simply called a Membrane Holder Housing.

And if Ford calls it a Sound Symposer, Ferrari calling it a Sound Generator is not that crazy. The previous 'membrane' might also not have been heat-resistant enough for placement in or near the hot tube of an exhaust system, and this part now serves both roles.

 

It would still be great to see a repeat of the McLaren F1’s road car to race-winning car journey. I have a vague recollection that the 250 GTO performed that feat too?

On a separate note, I wonder what will happen to the RB17 (?) - Newey’s Red Bull track only car, commissioned because he was unhappy with the compromises of the Valkyrie? Now he’s back at AM that’s turned out a bit awkward!

 

As for the GTO, it only finished second overall, and did worse even if it won the GT category if I remember correctly... Regarding Newey's disagreement with the Valkyrie, I think it has to do with the fact that he wanted a lighter car with a still smaller cabin ! (...)

 

Correct.
A simple properly conformed membrane that converts pressure waves from one side to the other.

A notable example is represented by some high-end hi-fi acoustic diffusers where a true woofer speaker (elettrically driven) is coupled with a simple passive membrane via acoustic duct. I remember at least a JBL Studio monitor of 90's using this concept. Externally, the diffuser appears to have a double woofer, but in reality only one is a real loudspeaker. Nevertheless, the acoustics returned to the room is also provided by the passive membrane, which transfers some of the acoustic energy inside the cabinet into the external field.

Returning to the topic, from the exploded assembly nothing suggests that the "sound generator" is of the active type, i.e., equipped with a real speaker (in which case, one or more microphones and an amplifier would be also required). Most probably it is a membrane with specific mass, damping and stiffness properties that couples two specifically conformed ducts. In the end, it is a system that behaves like an equalizer by exaggerating certain sections of the acoustic spectrum. Not artificial at all, because just based on physics.

 

Most discussions on here seem to get stranded in semantics, but I think we can all agree that there is no evidence for an active component in what Ferrari calls the Sound Generator, which makes it not fundamentally different from similar systems as used by Ford, Porsche, Mazda etc.

 

The McLaren F1 victory in 1995 was a historic and absolutely remarkable feat, in extreme weather conditions with 17 hours of steady rain.
In that edition, as far as I know, there were no 4WD cars, which would probably have represented an advantage on the wet. If memory serves me correctly, the first and only 4WD to race at Le Mans was the Porsche 961 in the 1986 edition, but its performance was nothing special. I have no idea if there were other 4WD cars racing between 1986 and 2012 the year when Audi won the race with a 4WD LM P1.
All this just to try to do a little futurology. If there will be little rain in the 2025 edition, who knows if the Valkyries might not get a place on the podium. However, if it is a rainy Le Mans it will be very difficult to beat the 4WD like the 499P.

 

Somehow I doubt the lack of 4WD isn't the biggest obstacle for Valkyrie to win the Le Mans.

Please remember that 499P is allowed to activate 4WD only at the speeds exceeding 190 km/h.

 

On the first day of testing for the 24H Daytona, the Valkyrie set a lap time just 1.8s slower than the Acura ARX-06 (V6 TT hybrid), which set the fastest lap of the day and had an excellent performance in the 2024 race.

This Valkyrie is very promising.

 

The part in question does not appear to have electrics, but that does not necessarily mean the sound is natural as posters above claim (@Lukeylikey and @REALZEUS). A resonator is the basis of most musical instruments, for example, converting the sound vibrations from the player's lips to the sound of a trumpet - a sound which is very different from the sound that enters the instrument.

Similarly the sound generator here creates a sound that is intentionally different from what went into it via the intercooler tube. In that sense it is very different to simply piping in engine bay noise. It is not a natural process, and neither is the resulting sound.

This has been going on for more than a decade at Ferrari and other makers. So nothing new. When it comes to artificial sound vs natural, it is better to use common sense and decide which side a sound generator sits.

 

There is no danger of "lost in translation" with the Ferrari Sound Generator. Even the Italian parts catalogue uses the English term

 

Here are some photos of the sound generator, showing that it is likely a non-electric device: