Ferrari F80

I hear what you are saying, and I appreciate you having said it so respectfully. But to me, these two models are a vast departure that I don't think is worthy of the Ferrari moniker, don't look good now nor will they age well or be able to compete with the much better looks of their competitors' hypercars. You mentioned the SP3. Something changed with their limited model design team after that car was made. The SP3 may have had some initial detractors, but it is clearly an example of a georgous new modern Ferrari design. I I haven't seen the F80 in person, so I can't speak to that, but on video and pics, it's just plain ugly and doesn't look like any kind of progression of their previous hypercars. To me, the La Ferrari is absolutely gorgeous with its flowing lines and impeccable overall design. I can't remember a bad word having been said about it from day one, whether it be in first pics or videos, or in person. It is a work of art. This is not that. It never will be. I feel the same way about the 12 Cilindri. They obviously came from the same design team. I have seen one of those in person at a Ferrari cars and coffee where I live and it didn't change my opinion. It surprisingly did not get a lot of attention beyond first looks and people that I heard and spoke to did not care of it. There was a dark red 812SF a few cars down that I felt looked gorgeous in comparison. No wonder my 812 has gone so far up in value since the 12C was released. I recognize that Ferraris can be a new departure in looks that takes time to see the new beauty. But these two new cars are not that. I love Ferrari and am not just trying to complain. I am sad.

 

When people understand that design is matter of personal taste, this place will become much more peaceful.

 

Design is completely subjective, this coming from someone who has a degree in automotive design, and taught design for 5 years. To show how subjective, I think the new 12 Cilindri in person is fantastic, as successful as the Monza and Roma, which are timeless designs. I do not care for the design of the 812 at all, a complete bastaradation of the original F12, did not care for the 812 when it came out, and do not now. I love the F40, its on my list, but I do not like the F50 at all. The F80, again, in person, is truly successful and modern, just needs a good spec.

Taste is very interesting, and the more abstract, the larger the divide. Ferrari is moving their design pallet forward and not getting stuck in the past, like Porsche. This inherently will take some getting use to. When the Enzo launched I did not understand the departure and the design took a long time for me to accept/appreciate. Ferrari is living in their esthetic past, pushing and modifying the form language into the future, but the interesting thing, is if they were unbadged cars, you would know they were Ferrari's

 

I think too many statements are made that amount to declaring a particular design somehow invalid or irredeemably terrible. None of Manzoni’s or Pininfarina’s or Scaglietti’s or Bertone’s designs were incompetent. They are all valid. It’s just that nobody likes them equally and the differences don’t follow a definitive pattern. Some dislike the F40 but love the F50, some love the F40 and not the F50, some love both and some neither. The most highly populated category would be those who love both I believe.

Both the F80 and 12C are highly competent designs. But some people like neither. If you were to believe some of the comments here, you would come away thinking that most people strongly dislike them. But that’s not actually true. In my experience, most people completely accept them and many love them. Some well-versed Ferrari fans legitimately and strongly dislike one or the other or both. Preferring an 812 or F12 to a 12C neither validates the earlier cars or invalidates the later one. It’s all just preference. Preferences change, design competence doesn’t.

The 308 Dino has started to look wonderful to me, after years of dismissing it as an uninteresting Ferrari. Its design has always been fully competent just not to my taste until a few years ago. Posts and posters who heap aggressive disdain on a model, stronger than just expressing a simple preference for something else, I find as easy to ignore as they probably do me.

 

There is a thread here on FChat with a poll about the Current Ferrari Styling. As FerrariChat is the largest online Ferrari community in the world, the 81 answers to this poll IMO are a representative sample. If I were Flavio Manzoni and someone showed me this poll, I certainly wouldn't be happy. However, Manzoni can always argue that those who participated in this poll are a bunch of Ferrari Styling ignorants.




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Interesting but statistically, the sample size is WAY to small to illustrate anything of significance.

 

The 812 never had a lot of converts even when seen and driven. The SP3 is rare but is also an odd vehicle. The problem is simply Manzoni. All of his designs have some kind of distasteful incoherence more so than other stylists. I love Ferrari and honestly believe that they would be so much better off without him.

If you like Ferrari than you are stuck with him for the time being but I sense folks are growing tired. You get the hint, aside from people just telling you, when there are threads dedicated to what people don't like about his models or him schooling you on why you are not sophisticated enough for his work to appeal to you. If you can dump PF and LdM then it should be easy to make this change.

 

Indeed. 13,752 cars shipped in 2024. 81 responses, equal to 0,589 % of the total shipments. Manzoni's current design style isn't to my liking, but I doubt they would care about such a sample size in Maranello. If we were to go down that route, they could simply pull up their social media where there are positive comments on their posts with 100x as many likes

 

The general opinion about Ferrari in the wider world is that Ferrari is still Ferrari. Nobody thinks to question “what on earth has happened to the design?” They couldn’t even tell you that Ferrari made a significant change from Pininfarina to FCS. When you see a Ferrari on the road, the most common reaction is still ‘wow’, followed in second place by “@*&$!”.

We just took delivery of our Purosangue after a long wait. Its design is incredible. Aside from whether or not Ferrari should have built it - not Manzoni’s decision - I can’t think of a better way to make a Ferrari ‘Utility Vehicle’ look. The surfacing, proportions and overall appearance are just incredible. Then you list Roma, Monza, LaFerrari - all universally applauded designs. There are many others, some more controversial here but fchat is just not a useful sample. We all either have skin in one model or another, or if not, we’re here without a Ferrari contributing to a Ferrari forum. That makes us all opinionated by definition. The average person’s reaction is relevant (because they have no real bias either for or against), as is the buyers’. And over the last 10 years they have had more of those than ever. Something else complained about.

 

Could not agree more. Here is the 208 Dino pre-production car that sold at auction two years ago at Pebble Beach for $450,000.00. Classic 70's wedge shape, timeless and a beautiful example. Not sure how anyone could not think this car is beautiful.


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How soon we forget. There was a time that all the cars shown below were seen as "not attractive" and old, bad Ferrari design. All the references below at one point could have been bought as used car for 5K. And these are just a few examples of Ferrari's that are now sought after.

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I think people needs some distance and objectivity. Pininfarina got a lot of flak for many of his latest Ferraris. Montezemolo too. The cars sold anyway. I think you can´t please everybody and the "things were better when I was younger" narrative works in every generation.

Personally, I haven´t changed my mind: as the years pass by, some things got better, some worse. But things will change, that´s for sure. Even the almost fascistic reactionary Morgans now offer an auto gearbox.

 

I'm not entirely sure. I'd never received any unsolicited messages about Ferrari designs before the 12c was launched. When both the 12c and F80 were launched, I got a bunch of texts and emails that I'd summarize as "WTF?". These weren't Ferrari people, or even car people in many cases.

I wouldn't draw any conclusions from this handful of reactions from my friends and acquaintances. But you're kidding yourself if you don't think these designs are divisive.

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FWIW, I like most of Manzoni's designs. I dislike all the black trim on the 12c and F80 (and suspect that this is a big part of what makes these designs so divisive). I hope he moves on from this fixation. If he does, I'm not in the camp calling for his head.

 

Perfect

For me, the F12 and the 458 are two of the most beautiful cars ever made by Ferrari, especially the F12. The Purosangue is the most beautiful SUV in existence. The LaFerrari is sensational. Manzoni does have his merits, it is undeniable, but that does not mean he got all his designs right.

 

"There was a time that all the cars shown below were seen as "not attractive" and old, bad Ferrari design". I'm sorry but this generalization is not true and let's see why.

The 1962 250GTO is widely considered one of the most beautiful and iconic Ferraris, renowned for its stunning design, powerful engine, and racing pedigree.

The 1957 250 GT California was a success and quickly became a hit among American jet set.

The 1952 225 S was a racing car, was well-received for its racing pedigree and beautiful design, with many examples winning important races and being driven by well-known drivers.

The 1951 342 America conceived as a pure road car, was initially met with mixed reactions, although subsequent interpretations by Vignale and Pininfarina helped pave the way for the model's eventual success.

The 1951 212 Inter C was well-received and considered a distinguished jewel from one of Maranello's most fascinating build periods, praised for its elegance and racing rawness.

 

I will tell you the story of the birth of the 812. Manzoni found it impossible to match the elegance of the F12( the designer has lost his health because he has worked so hard...) and when the specifications asked to make a more aggressive design, 2 sketches with 2 different designs were made. And rather very successful even! Marchionne asked to be presented with 3 different designs. Therefore, the third one that was done a posteriori was that of the 812. Manzoni was certain that the one for the 812 would not be chosen and did not want to present it. When presenting the 3 different designs, Marchionne decided on his own and chose the one for the 812... We can't blame everything on Manzoni. There is something paradoxical about him, because he is a man of taste but who has a big flaw: that of adding details rather than simplifying the form. This is something he had to learn and that he has not yet learned, which states that the theory of the "good form"( Gestalt theory ) requires to see everything "before" the details.
He did it for the Monza, the Roma and the 12C.

 

The things one learns here on Fchat, thank you for revealing this well kept secret to us. After learning that the current design of the 812 was not Manzoni's favorite, I have no choice but to redeem myself and forgive the man eight years late. Through my life I have met many architects, some friends, who are also men and women of taste but, like Manzoni, they tend to get lost in the details and instead of simplifying, they end up complicating the form. Until now none of them has achieved the status of great architect.

 

Funny - to me, the black trim on the 12c is the best illustration of a good design tarnished by its details.

 

The more they talk about sound, the more I fear the sound can be a weak point for this car…

 

that sound...sigh
the often I see the car the more I think: inbred between SCG003 and a LaFerrari. Kick Manzoni out!

 

Thanks for that interesting detail. Have to highlight that if he was as befuddled to match the design of the F12 then that says it right there his ability as a lead designer. He always adds junk to previous cars. Its that flaps and gills thing. Get a guy that can design pleasantly and brilliantly on his own. Ferrari, of all marks, can afford such a talent. Someone we don't have to make excuses for. The latest F80 model looks like 5 different body styles in one design which is just what you would expect. Things don't have to be controversial to be special.

 

I wonder what people would think of the F80 design if it had a Corvette badge on it instead of a prancing horse.

 

And for some it’s an example of good design enhanced by its details. We chose a colour that highlights these elements. We don’t have a coupe but for me a far more challenging part is the coupe roof design, which I don’t really like but others seem not to be bothered by. It’s all just preference and that’s for the good.

 

They’d think “who put a corvette badge on that Ferrari”