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Ferrari fanatical about engineering.

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by chaa, Dec 2, 2003.

  1. chaa

    chaa F1 Veteran

    Mar 21, 2003
    5,058
    I just read that line in another thread about K&N filters, and i laugh every time i hear it.I cant help but think crap cambelts,crap belt guides, warter pumps need rebuilding,cracking egsausts,crap bronze valve guides,quick wear cluches,valves need ajusting, and thats just of the top of my head after owninf Fs for 8 months.Sold my two F cars last week to buy a 355 spider and here we go again.I dont know if Ferrari are "fanatical about engineering" but i do think they engineer in problems,kind of like a ferrari tax.The point is made clear when you look at the German cars,evern though i dont go for German cars BOY! they are engineerd.A fernd of mine a few months back bought a 1995 911 with 40K on the clock and he asked the owner if he never used it much, where as a ferrari is deemed over used with anything over 20K on it, go figure. And hey look at the yank v8s i have one myself running twin turbos, it knocks out 100s of bhp with never a murmur only regular oil changes.I love the Ferraris very very much BUT...fanatical about engineering is a phrase i would never use.
     
  2. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

    Oct 19, 2001
    16,078
    Arlington Heights IL
    Full Name:
    Kenneth
    Well...they're not THAT bad. But you do have a valid point. They are better than they used to be but you are typical of today's new car buyer: you expect engineering and reliability from your new car. And a new Ferrari is $200k plus. At least they've finally trashed the stupid belts.
     
  3. 355f

    355f Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    305
    I made the original post on the K&N ad I agree with what you say to some extent.
    I think with any limited production car one has these issues.

    With respect though I was merely trying to point out that anyone who feels they can get more performance from a modern engine by fitting a K&N is misguided.

    As for engineering on german cars one only has to look at forums on Porsche and BMW to see they are not a paragon of reliabiity and they make millions of cars.

    Actually, my 99 355 has been more reliable than my toyota! and lack of use of ferrari in general is more down to owner attitudes than ability to last the course!

    And lastly inteersting to note that you have now acquired a 355 spider- ferrari- not so crap after all?? if you find the issues a problem why bankroll maranello more???

    always makes me laugh when you get individuals slagging the product maintaining nothing is right about it and the moment they have a chance to vote with their feet and buy a german car, what do they do____ buy another Ferrari
     
  4. chaa

    chaa F1 Veteran

    Mar 21, 2003
    5,058
    355f i was not attacking you mate in the K&N thread.As far as me buying Ferraris i like others always will,i love them in the same way i love women evern though they to have many problems (joke ok dudes). Its just that logic says that a multi thou Ferrari should be in my opinion as reliable and as robust as any other simularly powerd car,especialy cars that costs less.I think its the case of the emporers clothes, we know theres a problem but few say so in fear of being flamed.As i said i love Ferrari very much but i say it as it is.
     
  5. 355f

    355f Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    305
    Oh didnt take it as an attack!!

    I agree with what you are saying, im actually involved with a company that does engine tuning for motorsport programmes and projects for specialist manufacturers.

    As a very small example , even in a very small component we can use a competition throttle pot which does the job or we can get a Bosch product, this has been lifecycle tested for 1 million wipes to ensure its integrity. GM recently gave us a gearbox and it had been used on a test rig with a robot testing the integrity of a small nylon bush for 1 month equating to 500K changes.

    Thats how reliability comes. so in the case of ferrari, lambo, lotus, TVR, none of these companies can even come close and so, to some extent the customers do the deveopment work for them. Actually, whilst we all feel we pay a high price for the product, given the limited numbers they sell, to produce a vehicle right first time would cost approx 40pc more

    We should all be aware of this and unless you want the frustration only buy the later years of a model run
     
  6. TimN88

    TimN88 F1 Veteran

    Jun 12, 2001
    5,032
    Northeast
    Full Name:
    Tim
    If ferraris were as cheap and trouble free as say, a corvette, i dont think we would see as many dealers in business. Dealers probably make alot more money servincing cars they by selling them. I wouldnt go so far as to say that ferrari intentionally makes their cars so high maintenace.
     
  7. nberry

    nberry Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    714
    I do not believe extensive testing is done on a F-car like other cars. They spend money on R&D but being a small company with very low volume I doubt you will see F shipping F-Cars to the desert or Artic for testing. They understand their client base and driving habits.

    Recently Ferrari has recognized the need for a daily driving reliability and have improved the product with this in mind. Also, maintenace difficulties has been addressed. They have a long way to go and I doubt they will ever reach the levels of some other car maunufacturers.
     
  8. Agent Smith

    Agent Smith Formula 3

    Apr 20, 2002
    1,474
    IMHO I've read several posts here that point to LACK of use as being more of a problem for Ferraris. Overall people that use them ALL the time seem very happy with them. I don't think that a Ferrari will have the same reliability as a Toyota when used as a daily driver, and goodness knows maintenance costs are higher on the F-car, but when parts are not used regularly they tend not to last as long. My $.02....
     
  9. Lawrence Coppari

    Lawrence Coppari Formula 3

    Apr 29, 2002
    1,907
    Kingsport, TN
    Full Name:
    Lawrence A. Coppari
    I have owned my 328 for 15 years and tracked it for its first 6 years. I have had little trouble with it.

    In my not so humble opinion and like so many other things in life, I think a lot of problems are self inflicted.
     
  10. TOM B

    TOM B Formula 3

    Jul 24, 2003
    1,038
    Orange County, NY
    Full Name:
    Thomas Buckley
    I've put 45,000 miles on my '88 Mondial in the last 3 years . It's my daily driver and i've not had serious problems with it. It currently has 75,000 miles on it and I don't anticipate any problems into the future.


    Tom
     
  11. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    6,972
    You are misrepresenting what engineering is supposed to do.

    Engineering at Ferrari is devoted to making things faster and lasting long enough to pass government regulations. This give us 400 HP from 3.6 litres without the use of turbo or super chargers, 8500 RPM red lines and engines that do not slef destruct at 9500 RPMs (ask me how I know).

    Engineering at Toyota is devoted to getting rid of everything that would bother the driver/owner, ending up with rather bland cars that never miss a beat.

    Engineering at Porsche follows the Ferrari basic model, but since Porsche is about 10X as big as Ferrari, they can devote other engineering resources into following the toyota line of reasoning. If this is what suits your fancy, then so be it. Notice that the highly limited GT3 only gets 380 HP from the same displacement that Ferrari gets 425 (360CS) at similar production count.

    Given an unlimited budget, a company can do both. Ferrari does not have this kind of budget for road cars.
     
  12. rexrcr

    rexrcr Formula 3

    Nov 27, 2002
    1,572
    Kalamazoo, MI
    Full Name:
    Rob Schermerhorn
    Well said Mitch.

    Engineering is always a compromise.

    Rob
     

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