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Ferrari heritage cars coming?

Discussion in 'Recreations & Non-Period Rebodies' started by BarryK, Feb 20, 2018.

  1. Must see the interview we did with Piero Ferrari in Maranello! https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/news/297
  1. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    Jim Glickenhaus didn't design P4/5 did he??? I thought it was Pininfarina. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
     
  2. jtremlett

    jtremlett F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2004
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    No you're right, hence the apostrophe in my post, referring to his car. Obviously he had significant input into the design as the client.

    Jonathan
     
  3. peterp

    peterp F1 Veteran
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    No individual can "design" a supercar and have it perform adequately, much less outperform the original Enzo. Of course he didn't design it in the technical sense, but he made the car happen and had a strong voice in the design decisions throughout the process. It took guts to embark on the project when it seemed very unlikely at the time that Ferrari would allow him to even call the car a Ferrari. I think when Ferrari saw the end result, they couldn't not call it a Ferrari :). I had the worst possible expectations when I first heard what he was trying to do, but in my view, the end result is unambiguously brilliant.
     
  4. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    As Eric Clapton and Peter Kalikow did when they had their SP cars made by Ferrari. I don't think they'd claim the expertise for designing the cars. The input was akin to when somebody configures/specs their new car. Glickenhaus does like to perpetuate the myth that he was the brains behind P4/5. He posted the below link to a story on his FB page very recently.

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  5. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    I agree P4/5 is fantastic. All credit to Pininfarina for the expertise/brilliance and beauty of the design and thanks to JG for agreeing to commission and funding it.
     
  6. peterp

    peterp F1 Veteran
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    #31 peterp, Feb 22, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
    I won't comment on Jim's other cars or claims or projects, but I don't think there is anything to be critical about with P4/5, or with the claim that he was the brains (creatively) behind it. The entire coachbuilding model Peter and Eric leveraged to have their cars created would likely not exist at all if not for Jim pioneering the revival of a coachbuilt Ferrari -- and doing that even though Ferrari was initially dismissive of the idea. Jim knows a lot about the car P4/5 was patterned after and he obviously has a passion for those specific cars, it's impossible to believe he didn't have a large number of very specific requests and requirements and preferences throughout the process at a very detailed level. I doubt Peter or Eric had the ability or desire to provide specific detailed input that Jim had. I think in Peter's case, the request was (very roughly) something along the lines of "make a completely different body that is so subtle that only 10 percent of Ferrari fans would recognize the differences".
     
  7. donv

    donv F1 World Champ
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    He was the client, and thus had a lot of input and direction, even if he wasn't the one putting pen to paper (or the electronic equivalent). An architect designs a house for you, but as the owner and client you set the requirements, and that drives a lot of the design. And then, you get to choose the elements which you like and veto the ones that you don't.

    It's a collaborative process. I believe Jim has always given a lot of credit to Jason Castriota, then of Pininfarina.
     
  8. freedomgli

    freedomgli Karting

    Sep 20, 2005
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    I haven't read the Pur Sang thread. But there is a big difference between what is/ isn't allowed for a vehicle manufacturer and what an individual can get away with in terms of vehicle registration at the state level (e.g. AZ regulation 28-2484.D.3. which allows for a reconstructed vehicle that the director determines, on application by the owner, retains at least the basic original body style as manufactured twenty-five years or more before the date of the application to be registered as a "historic vehicle").
     
  9. jgriff

    jgriff Formula 3
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    For me a "heritage" Ferrari would mean building a new car that adheres to the philosophy of the previous decades. A lightweight simple (as simple as can be made today) car with a small NA motor. Make something in the size and weight range of the Porsche Boxster with a very small V8, V12 or Flat 12 (2.0L-3.0L). Make it extremely high quality but no power windows, no 600 watt stereo, no Apple Car Play, no tacky carbon fiber interior bits that will all be out-of-date in a few years. Imagine what they could charge for limited edition car like this. All Porsche had to do to make a $500k car was give it a manual transmission.

    Of course they would have to keep making the giant bloated turbo cars for other customers who feel that 1/4 mile time and wheel diameter is the way to judge a car.
     
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  10. Mo34t

    Mo34t Rookie

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    I would appreciate seeing re-interpretations of classical pininfarina designed bodies on modern Ferrari chassis - if they would be carried out in a decent way - like Ford did with the first modern Ford GT (2004) - not a 1/1 copy of the original but true to the spirit of the original.
     
  11. BarryK

    BarryK Formula Junior

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    The Sweater himself has added some fuel to this particular fire at Geneva yesterday (as reported by Road & Track)

    https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-shows/geneva-auto-show/a19149980/sergio-marchionne-interview/

    Asked about whether Ferrari would consider doing "continuation cars"—vintage designs re-released with modern improvements:
    The answer is yes. What I struggle with is the use of the term "continuation car." When I was young and foolish and I had no money, I bought myself the carcass of a Jaguar E-Type. It was a rust bucket. I spent all my university savings trying to fix the car. I never did, and I finally sold it to recover at least part of my investment. I couldn’t figure out why it was never re-launched, because that was one of the most beautiful cars God ever made. The fact that they’ve made a limited edition of the E-Type now is encouraging.

    I struggle with the whole notion of reinventing [the Ferrari 250 GTO] and relaunching it. That’s a tough gig. I think there’s an opportunity here to take symbols of Italian design from the Ferrari lineup, and use them as a platform on which to do something that resembles it. Hopefully we’ll be able to show you one of those things in the next four years.

    We’re not gonna bet the bank on this, because living off the spoils of your past ain’t a happy place to be. I think you can do it once in awhile, but I don’t think you should make it a habit. I think the mind should deliver new and fresh designs all the time.
     
  12. ag512bbi

    ag512bbi F1 Veteran
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    See, If they go by the Clapton looking Boxer, I'd say PASS on the project. That is UGLY.
    I feel if it doesn't look exactly like the "vintage/Original" car, then why make it.
    Kinda like the AC Cobras. The recreations look pretty much the same as the originals. That's what I would expect.
     
  13. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle F1 Rookie
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    That sounds very much like pastiche to me. Let's hope I am wrong. It could end up being Ferrari's answer to this:

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  14. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    Mods, please move this thread (and any others regarding same or similar subject matter) to "Recreation/Replica" forum section. These topics have nothing to do with real vintage Ferraris.
     
  15. peterp

    peterp F1 Veteran
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    Ferrari can do anything they want with heritage cars that are a visual homage to the vintage cars. If they start recreating vintage GTO's, and 275 GTB's, etc -- that will be an abomination of epic proportions IMHO.

    I respectfully disagree about moving the thread (even though I agree on a sentimental basis). Given that it's the Ferrari factory, and what they choose to do will have at least some direct impact on the true vintage F-cars, it seems like it should remain in vintage proper.
     
  16. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    I too respectfully disagree. IMO, if anything, due to "Ferrari factory" involvement in these MODERN recreations and since they're not really "vintage proper", perhaps these subject threads should be moved to some generic Ferrari discussion section.
     
  17. peterp

    peterp F1 Veteran
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    I agree with that for sure, general Ferrari discussion is probably more of a fit. Depending on what Ferrari decides to do, moving it to the "trash" might be my preference :) :) :), but I guess that wouldn't fix anything.
     
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  18. open roads

    open roads F1 Rookie

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    #43 open roads, Apr 8, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
    Ferrari heritage cars coming?

    No.

    They are not coming.

    The Chairman's words can be taken many ways. ... Including that what has been learned, may be included in future designs.

    It shouldn't even be questioned, in my opinion, if Ferrari is capable of producing cars they made fifty years ago. And in numbers. It shouldn't even be thought that they either would not be well received. Or very profitable.

    I think it much more likely that we will continue to see cars like the Californias, GTOs, and TDFs that we have seen Ferrari present over the last ten years.

    Are Ferrari heritage cars coming? No. Not in the way that they look just like they did. ... Don't bet on it. ... And I'm sorry to be the killjoy here.



    I also think that this discussion is best suited for this space. It obviously doesn't belong in the Vintage section. Arguing that this discussion doesn't belong here. Because of this areas definition, may ultimately be correct. It would thus be the only topic for discussion. In a brand new section. ... I think it is in the spirit of this section though. And so perhaps it is best that that new section not be formed yet. If ever.
     
  19. BarryK

    BarryK Formula Junior

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    There's talk of a 812 Monza coming out in autumn. May be the 750 inspired body with 812 running gear? Marcel Massini has posted that the car has virtually no windshield and will be called Monza, which supports the idea.
     
  20. open roads

    open roads F1 Rookie

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    I trust what Mr. Massini says. And I will look forward to what they make. Sometimes when they make a one off, they hit it out of the park.

    I love their corporate expression of automotive art.
     

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