Ferrari in no mood to compromise at Formula One crisis talks

Aha!! don't bloody blame em Bravo!! not thought about THAT ONE!!

That in it's self makes it unworkable.

 

This, if accurate, represents a considerable hardening of their position, does it not?

I thought they'd already "sort of" agreed to the need for a cap of some description.

I still think it's all BS, but man, it's getting loud - Smoke without fire etc....

 

I'm still surprised how a lone gunman still hasn't offed Herr Mosely.

 

The principal concept of a zero sum game assumes that each side will ultimately do what is in its own best interest. This premise is often thrwarted when the unpredictability of human emotion in all its forms comes into play. Ego, pride, ideals, and multiple irrational forces begin to take hold.

A bumpy ride ahead with unforeseeable results. This is beyond a power struggle.

 

Read as: WE DON'T WANT NO STINKIN' SPEC SERIES!! I think the point that they don't want another IRL and would like to preserve the top-dog status of Formula 1 is legitimate. What I don't understand, though, is WHY on earth does BernieMax WANT that type of series? It wouldn't be F1 anymore, imo.

 

Fixing the "cap" is not going to change one thing, because it's not the REAL issue. Even if, and it's a big if, everyone can come to a resolution on "caps and rules" it's not going to change the fallout that's coming when Bernie and FOTA decide on how to divide the MONEY up. Bernie is more than happy to let Max be his hammer for the time being to guage how strong and united Luca/Ferrari and FOTA really are, which will tell him how big a problem he's going to have when it comes to dividing up the pot! If Max wins he wins, if Max loses, he loses, but how much we will see. Bernie and Max formidable politicians they are, have met their match with Luca when it comes to playing chess! This isn't checkers...........

 

every company in the world has at least two sets of books...

 

Three:

1. for the feds.
2. for the bank.
3. the real figures.

 

I do not know who at Ferrari said this:

"We want no budget cap, same rules for everyone, clear rules," Ferrari said. "We want to invest in cars, in engines, in aerodynamics, in the technology of the cars. We don't like to see Formula One like any other formula. There will be no compromise."

But they are a fool. To me F1 IS more important than a single team. It is important to keep all of the current teams and bring in new ones so there must be a compromise. The same rules, certainly. Clear rules, certainly. Maybe it would be good for the sport if Ferrari and their ego left. If the only way for Ferrari to win races is to spend unlimited amounts of money, they should not be in racing. Buying a victory is rather shallow. Yet this year has shown that Ferrari's money has only brought disappointment.

Dear Luca, instead of this riciulous negativity, how about offering a true solution to the future of F1, not only the future of Ferrari.

 

Piero did.

 

I agree with you in saying F1 is more important than any one team. I also agree 100% with Ferrari on this issue. Formula 1 is suppose to be the pinnacle of racing; it's the most prestigious, advanced, and the fastest cars in the world. So why does the FIA want to put a budget cap on this? To me, that doesn't make any sense, because that's what Formula 1 is. Having a two-tier championship, also doesn't make any sense and will ruin the sport entirely. I think Ferrari is correct in standing up and threatening to exit the championship all together. I do realize that you do not need to be the richest team to win, Brawn GP has been an excellent example of that this year so far. However, I think a team should be allowed to invest whatever they can afford if that's what they want to do. Investing more in R&D leads to more technical advancements in the cars which is why F1 is the highest level of racing. I hope the teams and the FIA can resolve these issues and correct them to continue the legacy of Formula 1

 

+1.

IMO, today's F1 is only a shell of what it used to be. When the major teams leave, FIA/Max can then combine it with the F3 series and have their two tier F1 championship series.

Ferrrai will have my support no matter what series they decides to run in.

 

Now that NASCAR is set to lose GM and Dodge soon I'm sure they'd welcome Ferrari

 

I personally hate NASCAR with a passion. I wouldn't even watch it with Ferrari in it. Besides Ferrari would want to enter a championship where other teams actually take full advantage of a car and not go around a circle for a couple hours.

 

Seems like people here are starting to take F's threat a little more serious now. Egos are really big stumbling blocks. Look at how they resulted in no US or Canadian Grand Prix race? Who ever envisioned that but it happened.

I think Bernie and Co. will think they can go it alone with 2nd rate teams in the sand box circuits he claims are clamoring at their door. Regardless of what happens Bernie is losing control with probably no turning back.

 

Here's another thought. What if things really deteriorate, I'm wondering if F could pull out before the end of this year?

 

I don't think this is about egos out of control at all. I think it's all about business.

Like I said, Ferrari makes $X per year on their F1 effort. So it's worth it for them to spend some amount less than $X to achieve results.

If they are artificially hampered in that effort, is it still worthwhile to them? If they lose the tech innovation aspect of F1, is it still worth it? Perhaps not.

It's no secret that Lola and Litespeed came out with their entering F1 announcements to try to put pressure on Ferrari/Renault/RBR/STR/Toyota.

That is stupid.

If those big guys leave, what is left won't be F1. It will be a group of underfunded hacks playing racing. There will ALWAYS be a desire for manufacturers to strut their stuff at the highest level. If F1 wants to cater more to the privateer teams, then so be it... but they are going to drive the big boys away.

There is no scenario where Force India will be equal to Ferrari and means and results. If that ever happens, then being in F1 would mean nothing to Ferrari, and they may as well quit.

If the big teams move on to their own or another series, most of the fans will move too. I would.

 

What happens if, when, another current team decides to leave F1 as did Honda? At the moment, there are only 20 cars on the grid. Mercedes is one vote away from quitting F1. Force India cannot continue for many more seasons subsidized by the owner's personal funds. Frank Williams is getting old an frail. Renault's board seems to not know from one season to the next if they will continue F1. Toyota seems questionable if the world economy continues to spiral downward.

Brawn GP's success is based on Honda money from 2008. This 2009 car was developed in 2008. This is not a poor team, they are right up there with Red Bull.

So what do you do if you lose one, or more of these teams? How do you fill the gird? There is a contractual minimum for every race in case you did not know.

The sport needs new teams, and new teams today will not enter F1 unless they have a remote chance of being successful. Budget caps are not only intended to protect the current teams, but also entice new teams into the sport. Budget caps will also force the engineers to sharpen their pencils and don't be surprised if they do an even better job at technology.

And I will say this once again, winning when you can spend unlimited funds is not the same as winning because you are a better team. For me Ferrari's position is childish. They think only of themselves, and not the sport in the long run. This is not the 1980's, this is a very strange period of economic concern.

Finally, everyone complains about the lack of competition in F1, with equal budgets, seems to me we will see a lot more equality on the grid. I guess that is what Ferrari is afraid of, having to earn their victories.

Why would you hate NASCAR "with a passion"? Have you ever been to a NASCAR race? Road racing takes no more full advantage of a car than circle track racing, it is just that they are very different.

 

Why would there be no scenaro where Force India could complete with Ferrari? Why would that mean nothing to Ferrari? Are you suggesting that Ferrari would only be in a series then can dominate? If that is their attitude, I think they should leave F1 and racing in general.

A breakaway series is unlikely, even Briatore admits this. There is no major team that has a BOD that can commit to a new series for any length of time in the current world economic climate.

 

I would not want to watch a F3 racing series pretending to be a F1 racing series which IMO, is essentially what you are going to ended up according to the direction Max is recommending. No matter how many shrimps you put on one plate, it is still not going to be equal to a lobster. FIA will still call it F1 and will continue to charge the fans F1 prices for attending the races, but the fact is, it is far from the spirits and the principles behind the true F1 racing series.

Also, FIA needs to realize that should the major team depart, they will probably take their engines with them too. Are they all going to run on Ford/Cosworth engines just like the IndyCar series ? If that is the case, then I guess Max won the battle and the war, he had always wanted a common engine for the series.

 

Very good post! Nice to see Piero wading into this battle, I firmly beleive that Ferrari must stand firm, the time has come for those in charge of F1 to realize they dont make F1 the teams do and perhaps that its maybe time to forget about self interest at the expense of the sport.

 

I see where you are going with this, and I do understand that economic times are tough, but you have to at least agree with the fact that a budget cap will ruin Formula 1 what it's suppose to be. It's suppose to be the most prestigious race to be in, meaning if you can afford it, you deserve to be in F1. Having these new players come in will not be F1 anymore. And no, I never been to a NASCAR race before, and I don't intend to be. I really do hate NASCAR with a "passion" but that is simply my opinion, I didn't realize you cared so much about my opinion, so I apologize if I hurt any feelings. I just don't like seeing a bunch of heavy v8 cars going around a circle track, that's all. That's not exciting at all. I still agree with Ferrari on this and I will stand by to support them and every team that feels the same way.

 

It makes me wonder how you could be a fan of F1 and especially Ferrari if you can't see it other than that. IT'S TOTALLY MIND NUMBING TO ME! that any one can think Max runs and negotiates within this sport in the correct manner, maybe they like being dictated to by a Mad man, with a strange sex fetish.

 

I know, F1 is suppose to be the best of the best and it should continue to be that way!