Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Regardless of what the actual time is, if the times between these two cars are "close" (inside 5 tenths for me), I will be heavily disappointed in McLaren. I will still chose the P1 though. I will always think that Porsche took the cowards way when trying to make their flag ship baby the fastest hybrid ever. When I think Porsche, drivers aids such as torque steering and all wheel steering would have never popped in my head. In my opinion, they only make the competition look even more impressive. If you have all this tech and your opponent is still quicker or even faster then I don't think you earned it as much. If you simply care about winning then bravo. You just might have Porsche. However, someone coming up to me and saying, "well yes, almost anyone with a pair could have driven that fast but it takes real skill to do the same in a McLaren!", I don't know about you but, that doesn't seem like Porsche to me. That's my point. Yes it's hard to make what Porsche has made but it's also the easiest less impressive way in my opinion out of the three. I also think that though Porsche delivering incomplete cars to customers while trying to sort out "issues" was indeed very clever. I think that was an ingenious way of getting the cars into customers hands and still keep upgrading the specs once they learn what the competition can do without making it look like that. Boo. That really spoils the fun FOR ME.

So, damn you McLaren for the bull**** but the P1 is still a beast. I would get the 918 so both me and my wife could drive it and have fun. I would chose the P1 because its for me. Not just anyone can turn the key and go. You need to know what you're doing. I want the smile on my face you only get when you know that it was you who made it do that. Not the car. Everything else is just for show.

 

If you want a big smile and a very driver dedicated car that takes you beyond anything a car that will beat you hard work your mind even harder.


If you like me and like this kind of driving experience then its the P1.

Mbn

 

Waiting to learn the limits in the P1 to be rewarded? Please, gentlemen, this is a million bucks car...
If you want to learn your limits, there are Radicals, Atoms, etc. All cars, which are made for this exact purpose and sometimes much more fun.
In 2014 all the hypercars have more than 900hp, which isn't the best learning tool, imo.

 

Wow. I completely disagree with your logic. completely disagree with your sentiment that Porsche are 'cowards' and what it means to be a true 'Porsche'. Disagree with your assertion regarding 'earning' something and the car being the least impressive. Disagree with you suggesting ANYONE can turn the key an go 10/10ths in the 918. I disagree with your entire post.

 

a car requiring near pro or pro level ability to exploit is not what Mac set out to build. company line was that owners (that means mere mortals) would be able to drive to the track and whip everyone, then drive home. there was never ever any mention of fighter pilot type learning curve. now folks are resorting to 'need more time with the car to fully exploit the performance', 'it's so unique and requires a unique approach because of so much downforce', thus it is a lot more 'rewarding' line? yikes. also, just because more people will be able to access more performance from the 918 more often, DOESN'T mean that it's automatic that everyone will be able to extract 10/10ths. we're already seeing posts implying that little skill is required to extract everything 918 has to offer, and it's balance/stability is now being turned into a negative. ludicrous really. I have no doubt that P1 is exhilarating on track, but marginalizing the 918 is just whacky. The LaFerrari is far more accessible and has far higher limits than the Enzo---outperforms it in every way, should it be deemed less rewarding because it's more accessible, and that its ultimate ability will be exploited by everyone and easily? jeebers.

A 458 GT2 race car has tons more downforce compared to 458 Speciale, does that mean it's more 'rewarding' to trust the much higher limit? I completely understand that it might be unnerving to jump in a car with massive step up in aero grip, but does it mean more enjoyment for the sake of believing in a invisible force? A race car driver usually has to come to grips with higher downforce when he/she moves up, but is that process more 'rewarding' in and of itself? Is it necessarily more 'rewarding' to have to go faster in different cars for that downforce to kick in? What does having faith in the aero have to do with it, and implying that 600kg of downforce in P1 equates to a much more 'rewarding' experience. it's funny how the 918 is made out to be a car with no aero performance, where it actually has very trick solutions. the fundamental mechanical grip combined with its active aero downforce seamlessly and transparently add up to huge ability. which in turn means driver confidence to push harder and harder. but there's no 'reward' in that? hmmm...

 

I don't doubt that your P1 makes your heart beat faster, as it would for all of us, but are you trying to say that 918 won't put a smile on the face of the driver? That the 918 drives itself?9,100rpm screaming V8 is ho hum?

 

How come no one said this when they compared a GTR or 12C to a 458? Everyone talks about Ferraris being rewarding, but when another car turns out to require some real talent to exploit, it becomes an undesirable trait and now the accessibility is all important. Contradictory IMO. You don't have to go far to find the same people criticizing AWD in a Lambo vs RWD in a Ferrari, yet with the 918 you'll sing praise... until the LF come out and then it will be all about emotion again.

 

You're saying P1 requires 'real talent' to exploit. Great. The Enzo no doubt requires more effort to drive under or at the limit than LaF, does that automatically mean it's more 'rewarding'? Does it make it the more special car? That it takes more effort to come to grips with a car makes it more special? That a car is accessible most of the time makes it dull and less 'rewarding'. My point is that there is not an 'automatic' yes or no. And just because a particular car requires 'more effort' to exploit doesn't necessarily mean it needs 'more talent' to exploit. Sometimes having to use more 'effort' makes a car more fun, sometimes it just makes a car a PITA. Effort doesn't automatically equate to Reward/Positive involvement. A car with super heavy clutch and heavy steering requires more effort to drive, but it isn't exactly fun in and of itself.

 

Porsche already has such a "rewarding" car - it's called Carrera GT.

 

Well, that's generally the tune around here.

I have no idea what the driving experience of these is like, and probably never will, but considering the P1's possible learning curve to be a negative -- especially while calling the supposed ease of a 918's potential a positive -- is pretty ridiculous when you look at the criticism thrown at all the GTRs, Lambos, and McLarens. Uneventful, too easy to drive, playstation-like, clinical, yada yada.

The P1 doesn't have a heavy clutch, you don't have to push it to start it or rebuild the engine every couple thousand miles. It's not about tedious motions, it's about skill and involvement. It has 2 pedals, to paddles, and a steering wheel. That's all. Those should be praised in light of all the negative comments about modern cars being boring and too easy to drive.

 

What's that have to do with anything?

 

Oh my, didn't expect to see this amount of clutching at straws. Where to begin?

1. Top Gear (and Jennifer for that matter) are kinda trying to sugarcoat P1 underachieving (or 918 overachieving) by saying "since car has alot of downforce it needs some time to get use to". Now, this is BS. More DF means more vertical load on tires, which in turn means tires being pressed harder against tarmac harder resulting in higher speed and better stability in corners.

More DF = more stability. No need to get used to it, especially the more you push the car. If anything, more DF means FAR easier driving around the track (see 2013 F1 and 2014 F1 with less downforce, loads more spinning on track). BTW check Jeremy's review of Zonda R (Ring record holder) and then compare it (his words too) to the Zonda Tricolori for example and look at him trying to contain it on track.

Another point, while you could say getting used to more DF when going from Renault Clio to P1 might be a problem when pushed to limits (btw it shouldn't be), having ~10% more DF on avg then 918 WILL DEFINITELY NOT pose problem. The difference is minimal.

The reason why 918 stays more stable on corners and is easier to exploit is simple. More mechanical grip + 4WD + 4WS + TV + lowest COG and tank-like amount of torque that can be put on the tarmac better then the other two hypercars can. This makes considerably more difference then minimal advantage of P1's aero DF advantage (especially since 918 has loads of it already). So, I expect 918 to outperform P1 pretty much everywhere.

2. There is no going around this fact. 918 accelerates as fast as P1(or faster), it breaks MUCH better and it achieves higher speed on track which means its entry and outward speed in corner is most likely higher then P1s.

That brings me to another point and I won't be making it again. P1 most definitely didn't break 918s record on N'Ring. It maybe didn't even go below 7min, and that 7'04 report was most certainly the closest to official time. People dreaming about 6'30s are drinking alot of cool aid.

In the end it seems like 918 overachieved (or Porsche purposely did it) and P1 underachieved, and both cars are indeed very very close. Much closer then McL fans want to admit and thats why they suddenly rave about "feeling" and "I might be slightly slower but I feel like I'm going faster, which is all that matters" type of "argument".

 

^Spot on.
And your last sentence will be looked for between the lines of every P1 review from now on...

 

See, I don't know why non of the manufacturers never say anything about mechanical grip but they always brag about DF... these 3 are not real race cars, so the difference in aero grip between them is probably negligible in practice.

I guess what I am saying is that the difference between RWD vs. 4WD + smart diff can be felt more than 20kg deviation in DF @ 200 km/h on track, or even on public roads.

 

Agreed

If anything, we can call the 918 the "Most impressive".

It has 4W steering etc, cause it was built from the ground up to accomplish an assortment of disparate things very well (relative luxury, technology/innovation, build quality, speed, engine and electrical sounds, acceleration, handling, economy, Infotainment, etc.) in one vehicle with out having to compromise much in anything. That's actually an outstanding engineering, aural achievement.

In comparison, the P1's a high strung MP4-12C with a bolted on electrical motor, and ghastly winged attached (no disrespect, just trying to make a point/counterpoint).

 

It appears the proverbial Goal Post are being constantly moved.

Previously, the likes of Chris Harris, Steve Sutcliffe, and many McLaren fan boys, were constantly saying "well who wants to be the slowest Super Hybrid". Feel and excitement were never brought up, cause these were all highly digital vehicles to begin with, no matter how much they were, or their car makers tried to make them exciting. It was all about speed and handling. Remember? Lol

And from what we can gather: The Top Gear writers are not saying the 918 is boring (how could with those electrical whines, 9150 rpm race derived engine, topless, etc., mentioned). Far from it. It's essentially a more balanced vehicle, handler, and it appears some people have a problem with that, so make up/draw their own conclusions.

Funny

 

Bingo/Tilt/You Got It Man, etc. (on all points)!!!

No need to add to this.

 

Good points.

I was looking for your 'Porsche took short cuts, the easy way out' response. Not sure if it's in this one. So I'll do it here.

If Porsche took short cuts: Then how come they have a car with 4WS, 4WD, Infotainment System, 3 motors, 300lb of batteries, etc., that weighs within 75-150 kilos of the relative stripped out, spartan P1?

You can argue, McLaren took the actual "short cuts", by building a Turbocharged engine (yes, we know Mclaren's financial situation), looser vehicle, while "selling out" to often times unusable downforce.

The P1 is not a track vehicle. If it was, why are they coming out with the GTR? They sold out.

It appears both Porsche and Ferrari took the time to build well crafted vehicles, that could perform well on both the road and track by applying strong measures of both mechanical and aero grip.

As the Rappers would say: "No Sell Out (just having fun guys)"! Lol

 

Good points.

But this was lost in all the hoopla, as certain fans of a particular vehicle (we won't say which one-"hush") made it their central argument, as if it was really going to matter that much vs the other two vehicles, and as if owners/drivers would be able to access it most times on conventional roads and even some tracks.

It was always negligible. However, some folks always wanted to hang onto it. Now, when the cars are being driven and tested, we get differing perspectives (that have should been known all along) to it's actual effect and usability, practicality.

 

Very well said. Agree with you on all points.

 

Hmm, after Harris and SS reviews, all P1 fans praised it for being so aproachable and easy to drive, now they praise it for not being aproachable and not anyone can drive it...hmm

 

Because they are desperate...
We tried to tell them (hundreds of pages back) to wait for the last laugh, but nobody heard.
I won't hide how funnily "quiet" they are now Even at McLarenLife the change is from "best hypercar ever" to "good color schemes and custom options from MSO"

 

I'm not even sure if the impending TG test has even been discussed on that other website (not including, some of Macca's loudest proponents, virtually disappearing over night)? If it has; it's been barely acknowledged?

I do agree. It's almost as if, many McLaren, British fans (fan boy, owners, "Kool Aid Drinkers", and writers alike), have been literally shell shocked. It appears, many can't fathom to believe (both the 918's individual performance, and the fact the P1 is not the unchallenged world beater/"Pole Position 1" they were told/promised) this is happening, may be the outcome.

 

I think ML is over the P1, or at least that's my impression. All cars are hot until they come out and people get them, then they become yesterday's news and a bit forgotten. Non-stop 650S talk until they started getting delivered, now not much to discuss. Same with the P1. The P1 owners at ML have already been tracking them and gave their impressions.

918 and LF threads are still hot because outside of RT, no one on the forums has taken delivery of them yet. In a few months this thread will be dead and 458 replacement will be the next hot topic.

 

Is that all what you guys care about? This thread has more posts discussing, studying and analysing the "McLaren fanboys" more than the cars. If anyone was expecting the 918 to be slower or not on par with the other two, then it was mostly you guys (Porsche fans). And talking crap all the time about fans of different marques isn't going to do you any favours.