Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

Thanks.

 

The front will decouple by itself when the car hits 265km/hr in 7th gear, and the time graph will tell that truth, the acceleration will suddenly drop off after that speed, which, IS the characteristic of the 918's system, by design majority of it's performance is below 265km/hr.

There is no need to hide that fact behind excuses, Porsche proudly announce that publicly for the longest time.

The whole point of the test in 7th gear is to test the system, timing when do the turbos start spooling up and how long that takes until full power and whether the e-motor provide enough help.

 

I just watched the top gear episode and I can officially say, it's maclarens fault. Porsche and ferrari are willing to do it with factory cars, but Mac only wants customer cars and they know ferrari won't do it with customers. So Mac's enemy is their excuse. And before you say that it's because ferrari's factory cars cheat, then apparently any other manufacturer that sends a factory car to a comparo must be cheating too.

 

Yes, McLaren is hiding behind Ferrari now. And quite rightfully so!

 

Noone1,
How about the idiot pulling 7th gear at 100-120mph? Clearly, this is another "unrealistic" scenario according to you?

From Autocar's test (7th gear acceleration):
100-120mph 3.5s (918) vs. 8.5s (P1)

5 secs difference? Where is the electric boost to eliminate the turbo lag?? I think a 650S probably accelerate 100-120mph in 8.5s as well in 7th gear without any electric motors!

 

It is an unrealistic situation for me if I have a P1. Why would you care about super quick acceleration from 100-120 mph yet keep the car in 7th gear, let alone manual? The car should be in automatic mode or you should be down shifting. A 7th gear pull from 100-120 means that you either a) don't care or b) don't know what you're doing. You live in the US, right? When is the last time you wanted to accelerate from 100-120 mph quickly and left the car in 7th gear?

Again, I don't really know why exactly it's so slow in 7th, but I don't think the times are any indication that the car isn't giving you all it can in normal usage. Just look at the other gears.

Here are the in-gear pulls for the other gears vs a Veyron SS. The page I copied that from didn't have the 6th gear times. Maybe you can add them in.

So you'll notice that even in a gear as high as 5th, the performance would seem to add up. Why is a 7th gear pull a dog? Not exactly sure. Gearing, lag, ECU decision. Dunno, but it's clear that 90mph belongs in 3rd or 4th as we clearly see. Hell, 4th gear goes all the way to 130mph, let alone from 50-70.

 

My understanding is the P1 motor is connected to the tranny input shaft. This is based on all that talk about torque multiplication in the P1 - there won't be any torque multiplication if the motor is connected to the output shaft or flywheel or differential.

Present that motor with a tall 7th gear ratio and it's a tough ask. Same case for the 918 rear motor if it's also connected to the input shaft. However 918 has a front motor directly driving the front diff with no tall gear ratio to overcome. That's the advantage.

Agree with noone1 though, it's an unrealistic real world scenario.

 

Did they post reverse gear times? I think that gear to me is more important than 7th

The Porsche has tremendous amount of electric torque. Combined with the Na v8 the response time really shocks you. It basically teleports forward, it gives you the feeling that you shouldn't be where you are after you open the throttle. Especially if its your first time in the car, your brain fails to catch up. That's why I think it would be really hard to beat in low speed corners and tracks.

The p1 is not that instantaneous. You get a push of electric power, then boost kicks in and you are catapulted forward.

In the real world the p1 will out accelerate the 918 above 60 mph, and the faster you go the more the gap is. Longer tracks with long sweeping corners will suit the p1 more.

 

My point is that the 918 times probably make the P1 times look a lot worse than they are because the 918 has a completely different set-up. Aside from it just having massively more instantaneous torque, it has a front motor as well to provide large amounts of torque no matter what gear you're in.

LOL. That 7th gear pull is an irrelevant test. It doesn't prove anything other than the fact that you are in the totally wrong gear and should just be in auto mode or downshifting.

Again, this doesn't prove your point that McLaren is lying to you and that the car doesn't give you 903hp when you want it. Just look at the 5th gear pulls for example. How else is the P1 so quick throughout the other gears if it's so down on power/tq?

 

Here is the 918 in-gear acceleration number added in for comparison:

3rd 30-50 50-70 70-90 90-110
918 1.2 1.3 1.4 1.6
P1 1.6 1.3 1.2 --
VSS 2.4 1.5 1.3 1.4


4th 30-50 50-70 70-90 90-110 110-130
918 1.4 1.6 1.8 2.0 2.2
P1 2.2 1.9 1.7 1.7 1.9
VSS 3.5 2.6 1.8 1.8 1.9


5th 50-70 70-90 90-110 110-130 130-150
918 1.7 2.1 2.4 2.7 3.0
P1 2.7 2.5 2.5 2.5 2.8
VSS 3.8 2.8 2.2 2.5 2.7

Once again, the discussion of the 7th gear acceleration is not about how one choose to use it in a real world scenario, but rather, it's about the flexibility of the power band and the e-motor effectiveness.

From the data shown above, you can conclude that at any given gear, the 918's e-motor is doing its job and it will give you an instant torque at any rpm, at any gear (notice how the 918 beat the P1 in the initial response by 0.4s, 0.8s and 1.0s in the initial 3rd, 4th and 5th gear acceleration).

It would also appear that P1's acceleration comes alive much later in the rpm, which can be derived from the assumption that the turbo has kicked in. But then, this goes back to Whoopsy's discussion about e-motor and turbo lag.

From the data above, if the 918 and P1 would do a race with each other on move:

3rd gear from 30-90mph:
918 3.9s
P1 4.1s

4th gear from 30-130mph:
918 9.0s
P1 9.4s

5th gear from 50mph-150mph
918 11.9s
P1 13.0s

 

You are this close to LMFAO, unotaz. First it was whoopsy saying it doesn't give you full power when you want it and that it's not 903hp. Then it's about whether the e-motor needs more torque. Now it's about the flexibility of the power band and who would win in X gear from some arbitrary speed interval?

The 918 has a more versatile system and more torque. It's probably better overall. Yes, the P1 does exhibit some turbo lag that the e-motor can't compensate enough for in absurd gears, and yes the initial response is .whocares seconds slower in the wrong gears because of it.

Does that sum up the points you are trying to make? That the car with AWD, more torque, no turbos, and more electric motors has better response and is more versatile in 4th gear pulls?

P1 is not the ideal car for wrong gear pulls and it's not as versatile because of it. Noted. Can we now get back to reality? You know, the alternate dimensions where no one cares how quickly a 1000hp halo car accelerates from the wrong gear. Just drive in auto if you're so concerned about acceleration and can't figure out what gear to be in. If you take the time to switch up to 7th gear, take 1.376s to click down a couple as well. Is having some sort of interaction with the gearbox so hard? After all the lamenting over the loss of manuals and NA, I can only imagine the uproar when Ferrari begins to highlight how you don't have to even change gears and can use the car in 7th all day long...

 

6th gear:

P1 180-200mph - 6s
918 180-200mph - 12s

Through gears
P1 60-150mph - 7.3s
918 60-150mph - 8.3s

In gear 50-70mph? Who cares? People would have bought a turbo diesel if they did.

 

Truth hurts. Basically the 918 gets lapped every 30 laps on Anglesey Coastal, because after HL mode falls flat on its face, it'll be 2.7s slower a lap, rather than just 1.2s slower!

 

Right... because everyone is going to use 900hp and 600kg of downforce on their local B road on a consistent basis??? What nonsensical drivel is this squire?

And of course, when owners do a track day, they do one fast lap and then head for the pits???? Never before have I read such pathetic nonsense.

What nonsense is this? Where's the problem in using customer cars? In fact, it should be standard for all testing, that way we know what's being tested is what the customers are actually getting.

 

Have you ever considered that it might not be programmed to use the e-motor in those conditions because it doesn't think the driver is trying to go fast. All these figures are obtained from a continuous run, so what you actually mean is boost threshold, not turbo lag anyway.

A 650S can also out-accelerate a flat-out 918 above 165mph.

Honestly... you're not interested in track day performance and instead you talk about in-gear acceleration times. Are you a car enthusiast or a sales exec.?

 

we know Top gear is working, finally, for a "hotlap" with LaFe... news??

 

Not even close. The biggest difference between me and LMFAO is that I don't use 4 different usernames on 4 different forms arguing about the same point. Most importantly, unlike LMFAO who has never driven these cars, I have driven both cars extensively and a whole lot of other exotics in my collection of cars (past and present).

Yes, thank you! This is exactly the point that I am trying to make and other media publications have mentioned this numerous times as well (ie. Jethro Bovingdon, EVO magazine article 918 vs. P1).

Ok, back to reality and the real world. Which car do you think will be faster through our canyon roads in Malibu with equal drivers? Would it be the 918 with its AWD, RWS, monster torque, bigger e-motor or the P1 without its Race Mode (because it's illegal and it bottoms out everywhere), 2WD, less torque and a smaller e-motor? Anyways, no need to answer that because it's a rhetorical question

 

No doubt about it, the P1 is a fast car when you drive it full blast, that was never my argument.

So how often do you drive 180-200mph in your car? Do you even have a car LMFAO?

 

Keep it coming LMFAO, I always look forward to reading your new "facts" everyday!

 

If you're not driving full blast, why do you care though? 7th gear is only on the P1 as a concession to cruising comfort and fuel economy. In the days when a gearshift is a click away, are in-gear times even important anymore?

Back to reality and the real world, and then you discuss driving dangerously on public roads? Discuss illegal driving on public roads and then mention that the P1's Race Mode is illegal? You're not big on cohesive arguments are you? For the sake of argument, I know plenty of A-roads and dual-carriageway/motorway link roads where the P1's Race Mode could hypothetically be used in conjunction with its downforce to great effect, just before you get a prison sentence.

 

Meanwhile...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DH5j4PYp-o][4k] 50-350+ km/h RACE Bugatti Veyron Vitesse vs Koenigsegg Agera R Highspeed oval - YouTube[/ame]

 

Meanwhile...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DH5j4PYp-o[/ame]

 

In which part of my statement did I say drive dangerously on public roads? "Discuss illegal driving on public roads." Did I say that? I asked which car is faster on the canyon roads, so where I did say drive above the speed limit and break the law? You can't even read properly...

While others on this forum have real world experience driving these cars extensively, lots of track experience on the Trofeo Rs and MPSC2, you dismiss their comments outright with your "internet facts". Have you driven the P1 or the 918? Do you have any real world experience on the track with either the Pirelli Corsa tires, MPSC2 or the Pirelli Trofeo R tires?

 

Yep and the Porsche will have to stop every 2 - 3 laps for new tires just like the McLaren or do we just need to forget the facts that the only way the P1 could beat the 918 was to fit some super one lap wonder tires? Hell even an F1 pitstop takes 20 + seconds from leaving track to returning, so that's 7 - 10 seconds per lap slower per lap for the P1 or are you going to tell me the P1's tires did last longer?.............Facts are a horrible thing aren't they.

BTW, since we are all talking Shi-ite, back in 1983 BMW launched their F1 engine which could eventually produce 1200 - 1500 bhp from 1.5 litres, it could only do 1 hot lap in F1 qualifying because everything downstream of the engine just wasn't strong enough to handle that much power and yet remain weight sensitive. They even found the best engine blocks were the one's that had already down some thousands of miles in a road car and were effectively unbreakable. I wonder if McLaren took a leaf from BMW, lets not care if the thing breaks or in this case the tires only last 2 laps, so long as we get "pole" at Anglesey. Which of course has absolutely no real-world application at all.......... Unless Ron Dennis sends a team to set up each car every time an owner wants to drive 2 laps on a track?

At least the Porsche recharges batteries when not in Hot Lap mode, unlike tires which once shagged cannot be unshagged....

 

This is slightly O/T, but what if the three manufacturers had decided to make their hyperbrids similar in lightweight build to their F1 and Le Mans cars but they still kept the luxury and closed cockpit. Would they be able to do it and still meet crash standards, or would it have been too expensive to make for a bunch of customers? what I'm saying in a nutshell is, if they decided to build them with the same materials as their racecars with money no option, would they be able to do it and make them weight almost as much as their racecars but still pass crash safety tests?