Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

I read this on R&T but its too much so i'll post a link, but its a article on the 918. Legends: the Porsche 962 and 918 face off at Indy

 

Nail hit. The masturabatory of threads.
Pete

 

My bet is the peak speeds are transposed. You won't find many people arguing that the P1 isn't faster in a straight line and it's been proven beyond a shadow of doubt by Motor Trend and Autocar, as well as by people who own both cars.

And it takes about 400m from rest for a P1 to catch a 918.

 

Yes, in ideal conditions, with a 2 mile straight, P1 is faster.

However, on tracks, there are these pesky things called curves and hairpins and braking points. Since vast majority of longer straights start and finish with slower corners, due to safety, and 918 has better traction of slower corners and can brake later, it somewhat negates the P1's power advantage.

 

Doesn't make much of a difference to peak mph on the straight, it only changes the rate at which you cover ground on the straight. It's really pretty similar to a good and bad launch in drag racing. The trap speed will still be about the same but the time will be faster, sometimes slower times even seem to generate faster trap speeds with the same car.

Data suggests that the P1 has about 4 mph on the 918 in a quarter (149mph vs 145mph - MT and C&D), even though the times are similar. To gain an extra 6 mph in peak speed and change -4mph into +2mph, the 918 would probably have to come round the corner about 20mph faster due to the non-linear nature of acceleration. The corner leading onto the straight where peak speed is achieved is ~70mph, so the 918 would have to come around it at maybe 90mph. We also know the P1 has the highest g.

Maybe I'm wrong but the only other explanation is driver variance.

P1 did some development on that track too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPaAp0mR2ik

 

Ditto, to both you and xybyx (and probably many other folks)?!!!

But then again, when I do decide to read, it's classic entertainment of the most dubious and specious kind.

So in many respects (as it's been said), "keep it coming". LOL/SMH

 

Nice article; though the writer does appear a bit misinformed on the 918's tech (as some commenters pointed out) , historical standing and innovation vs it's Hyper-Brid competitors, as well as within Porsche. Nonetheless, he's entitled, it happens.

Thanks

 

From treynor on mclife:

Yow. I see this thread remains in full swing.

Let me add some data. Here in a nutshell is why I prefer the P1 to the 918 despite the now-ample evidence that they are closely matched in track performance when fully charged:


This graph shows three sequential laps of the 918 and the P1, both done after 1 warmup lap. I'll let you guess what the lap order is for the 918. The problem is the 918's power inconsistency: the acceleration varies so widely from lap to lap that the driver cannot use the same braking markers. You can see the overslowing into T5 and T7 which results from using braking markers established in lap 1 on the two subsequent laps. The driver dealt with this inconsistency afterward by not running 2 hot laps in a row - which is not an option in any real-world track event I've been to.
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The 918 laps look way more consistant. I honestly cannot see a p1 advantage there

 

Same thing I thought. But maybe when the article and video shows up they'll explain exactly where it went wrong and clarify what we're seeing.

 

P1 dosnt lose on acceleration where the graph is climbing on the 3 laps. 918 shows a drop in mph. That is a pure hp/tq demonstration there.

 

He said not to pay much attention to the corner speeds because these were only the first few laps, meaning they still need to figure out how handle the cars best.

I think what he's saying is that the 918 acceleration is dropping off with each lap, hitting different speeds and requiring different braking. Whether it's significant or not, I have no idea. Going into T7 looks to be significantly different for the 918 on each lap for whatever reason.

 

Pretty weak sauce. Vertical axis not the same. Horizontal axis offset. Sloppy. This just viz presentation. Regarding the data, exit of the last turn has a bit jitter that doesn't show on the entrance. Slopes and peaks are different between the sets but if they unified the scales, it would be most helpful...

SV

 

Look at the entry speeds before braking.

If anything this just demonstrates the purpose of hot lap mode in graph form. According to porsche ;

"For pole position: “Hot Lap"

The “Hot Lap" button in the middle of the map switch releases the final reserves of the 918 Spyder and can only be activated in “Race Hybrid" mode. Similar to a qualification mode, this pushes the traction battery to its maximum power output limits for a few fast laps. This mode uses all of the available energy in the battery."

 

T4-T5 Peak Speed (Best)
P1 - 141.5mph (+6.3mph)
918 - 135.2mph

T5-T6 Peak Speed (Best)
P1 - 128.5mph (+5.9mph)
918 - 122.6mph

T6-T7/8 Peak Speed (Best)
P1 - 141.0mph (+9.6mph) - "Running up that hill with no problems."
918 - 131.4mph

T5 Apex Speed (Worst)
P1 - 58mph (-6.2mph)
918 - 64.2mph

T5 Apex Speed (Best)
P1 - 62.9mph (-3.3mph)
918 - 66.2mph

'Trofeo R tyre advantage' - Hohoho.

T6 Apex Speed (Worst)
P1 - 71.8mph (-4.1mph)
918 - 75.9mph

T6 Apex Speed (Best)
P1 - 78.0mph (+1.1mph)
918 - 76.9mph

Aero advantage. (78/62.9)^2 = 1.54 times downforce of T5 available to P1 on T6. Circa 150kg (600/4).

Friction = uN

N ~ mg + downforce ~ 1.1mg for P1 (+10%)

sqrt(1.1) = 1.049 (+4.9%) in cornering speed. @~80mph = +4mph.

T7-8 Apex Speed (Worst)
P1 - 41.6mph (-1.2mph)
918 - 42.8mph

T7-8 Apex Speed (Best)
P1 - 39.0mph (-2.8mph)
918 - 41.8mph

Cornering Variance

T5 Apex Speed (Variance)
P1 - 4.9mph
918 - 2.0mph

T6 Apex Speed (Variance)
P1 - 6.2mph
918 - 1.0mph

T7-8 Apex Speed (Variance)
P1 - 2.6mph
918 - 1.0mph

Variance shows driver is struggling to get to grips with P1 but is fairly much on top of 918.

Peak Speed Variance.

T4-5 Peak Speed (Variance)
P1 - 1.0mph
918 - 3.9mph

T5-6 Peak Speed (Variance)
P1 - 1.0mph
918 - 3.5mph

T6-7/8 Peak Speed (Variance)
P1 - 1.0mph
918 - 4.0mph

Variance shows battery is struggling in 918 with HL mode. P1 with higher cornering variance still manages less variance in peak straight speed. This also shows that cornering speed has limited affect on peak straight speed.
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This is getting downright comical and embarrassing (though utterly entertaining at times).

Somebody must work for McLaren (again)!?

Every point, must be emphatically responded to with a rapid fire collage of useless, eye tearing "facts" oblivious to what was said previously.

Who does this!?

You can't make this up.

 

Dont worry. He lost his last 3 hours to fart this.

 

Yeah, but the guys gotta be 15 years old, and/or some hapless drone that works for the company.

Has to be (either/both)!?

No sane adult person (with all due respect) who's NOT being compensated could be so routinely obliviously insanely pitiful. LOL

The guy is Peloton on Max Steroids, or some Superhero/Villian who suffered some type of accident, ultimately maximizing his misguided powers.

 

Perhaps you could cry into a little bowl next time, so that I may collect your precious tears.

If you're anyway a car enthusiast you should be just a little bit interested in the analysis I've done.

 

And the Hits just keep coming.

You seem like a nice guy when you're not mindlessly trolling. However, I'm not sure if I would label what you do "analysis". And the fact that you're telling us this while simultaneously patting yourself on the back, only makes you more lovingly comical/so seemingly oblivious to your schtick (and/or ultimately misguided).

God bless ya man!

I hope they compensate you well, to your satisfaction!?

Meanwhile; "More Popcorn Please".

 

If you think that the 918 will drain it batts to 0% after 3 laps of that car park, you and your mate are in dream land......

I repeat for the last time, does not matter if the batts are 90% or 20% zero drop of in available e- power,

 

There certainly are differences, my main beef is with the presentation of data which by itself confuses rather than enhances understanding... And discussion.

SV

 

My guess is I think the data logging software auto scales the axis.

 

Obviously this is a car forum where people express opinions about cars.

Why personally attack someone? Now that is pitiful...

 

Go look at the figures. The variance in peak speed for the 918 is 4mph, whereas the corner speed variance is only 1mph. For the P1 the corner speed variance is up to 6mph yet the peak speed variance is only 1mph.

How come the 918 got so slow on straights anyway, even in HL mode - 6-10mph slower in peak speeds despite quarter mile trap differences of only 2-3mph and only 1.6mph difference on Castelloli, even assuming we transpose the peak speeds in the P1's favour? How come the cornering speeds got so much better despite this tyre advantage bollox? I'll give you 5 minutes to come up with an answer (30s to realise the answer, 4 minutes 30s to think of excuses).