Ferrari LaFerrari vs Mclaren P1 vs Porsche 918

THE VERDICT

Ferrari laFerrari is noticeably faster.

 

A lot of people over here are racers but it seems that some others have not set foot on a track in their lives. I am a track day enthusiast and have done a few club races, nothing to be cocky about of course - not even close to a real racer. I know though that 2 trackdays mean that the tyres on that LaFerrari must have been pretty worn down! A new tyre is up to 3 secs a lap faster than a worn one on a 90s lap. More experienced racers will elaborate further.

Cheers

 

Not necessarily. In fact, worn tyres might be faster, depending on the number of heat cycles they've been through, and the specific compound. On new tyres, you may feel the tread blocks moving around, they can overheat, and they won't give as much grip (road tyres of course). Can feel similar to wet tyres on a drying track. New tyres will likely need a couple of runs to optimise pressures.

So, when tread blocks are less, can be better. However, if the tyre has been run hard a number of times to get to the part worn state, then the compound will have gone off after heating and cooling, which could offset the extra contact area.

This is why tyre shaving is effective (and not allowed in some racing) - you can wear the tread down without any heat cycles and maximise the grip. I'd be interested to know if the P1 "heat cycled" tyres at Laguna had been shaved, or just run through one heat cycle...

So, very difficult to compare benefits of new v used without knowing specific tyre characteristics and also the heat cycling. (And different days). In any case, no road tyre will be worth 3s on a lap just because it's new. A new slick could be worth 2s over a very worn slick.

Can't comment on Anglesey, but if I wanted to maximise tyre performance, I would shave the tyres, then do a few runs to set optimum pressures, then put on a fresh set of shaved tyres, set at the same cold pressures as the set you have just optimised. Then they will come up to temp a pressure while in peak condition and you nail a time. All of which seems pretty similar to Mclarens Laguna day out!

 

So in summary

The Laferrari was actually tested on the same day at the P1, it was 0.5s quicker with tyres that had done 3000 miles and two track days unlike the P1 which was a factory car with fresh tyres. Furthermore the Laferrari wasn't even being driven flat out!

Makes you wonder why the heck Ferrari have played this all so defensively. Based on these numbers it is the quickest of the hypercars and they should have definitely turned up at Laguna Seca

 

With all due respect sir, and you really seem to know what you are talking about, I disagree. My track experience has shown that a new tyre is always faster than a worn one. I do get the "shaving" idea but that disregards the heat cycles and the physical abuse that a tyre's construction (much different to its surface compound wear) endures when lapped hard.

PS: I am no expert though. An Italian chap on this forum is a suspensions wizzard and will clarify this for us.

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcPWP1ICHtA[/ame]

 

I do know what I'm taking about, and not looking for an argument , but I know for a fact that some tyres (not all) will perform better when worn. Shaving saves heat cycles, but if you're not counting shaved tyres as 'worn', then another example would be if a tyre is used over a number of miles but not really pushed, and so temperature doesn't come up to max, then it will have same effect as shaving. Road tyres that have only been used in the wet can be in peak condition for example. Or, if the driver is not pushing them to the limit.

I have done many days of tyre testing, slicks, road, treated race etc, sometimes going through 3 sets in a day, and there's no set rule. In some races where shaving is illegal, we've run round for hours without pushing the temperature to get the same effect legally, by wearing the tread down.

You can be pretty sure that a worn slick is slower than a new one, and you can be pretty sure that a worn set of road tyres that have been properly heat cycled through their life will be slower, but other than that it's compound, usage history, track dependant. There are chunks of time to be found, for sure.

 

Fully agree with this. My MPSC2s on my RHD GT3 have done over 20 track days and 3 V-max event's. but down to under 2mm, so changed the for new ones.

The grip offered on the new ones is nothing like the old ones, old ones going back on this week for the next track event....

 

Guys, where is the original post where it is written that LaF has set 1.12.1 in Anglesey?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aIId_-5k_A

 

Remember the 918 time was not fair it is because they test it without roof (All expert can understand a track time with an open top is like a joke , even Jethro confirmed that there is some more room for 918 to best its time! an expert at Porsche (who has a lot of experiences with 918 ) said the 918 can post far better time at Anglesey.
By the way when Auto Motor Und Sport test 918 vs La Ferrari vs Veyron at Hockenheim Ring the 918 outperform La Ferrari in terms of handling!
Here is the result:
Conclusion

The Bugatti Veyron impresses with its sheer force and perfection. The Ferrari captivates with the coolest appearance and its unique sound. The Porsche is the handling talent and has the longest electric range – my clear favourite.
Veyron, LaFerrari und 918 Spyder compared: Summit meeting with 3,050 bhp (Result) - AUTO MOTOR AND SPORT

 

This sounds absolutely mental... If the car wasnt even pushed hard , had moderately worn out tyres and yet produced a better laptime like this... wow.

Indeed this sounds more and more like: case closed.

 

Thanks for this.

Agree with Anglesey. Everyone knows there was way more in the tank regarding the 918 (some of the stuff you mentioned, along with other reasons). Plus, this was on different days. How do we know there wasn't a tail wind that day for one (taking nothing away from the LaFe)?

This is why showing up after the fact (albeit with a customer car) is so unfair, after Ferrari declined numerous invitations.

Regarding Auto Und Sport (I was unaware of this). If true, now we can stop saying "The La Ferrari Has Won Every Comparison it was involved in (let's even forget the fact it wasn't track tested, measured for performance, or these were only Brit publications, etc.), as he clearly stated at the end "MY CLEAR FAVORITE", pertaining to the 918. These cars were apparently all tested on the same day (though I didn't read the article, thus don't know to what extent).

 

By the way it was so funny for all 918 fans, a 918 with open top defeated P1 by 0.2s
Just imagine if they test 918 with its roof then only GOD knows the exact margin between the two! or imagine if a non-British mag test them at Anglesey (for example Motortrend) then again only GOD knows the exact margin between them!
Please be assured that my point of view is due to the facts, for example EVO test the 918 without roof, and then they try and try very hard to defeat its time but they can't defeat 918 time(without roof!!) only they managed to closed the gap to 0.2s, then after so many weeks they back with P1 and Trofeo R and even without inviting a 918 to Anglesey then try and try to best the P1 time and only when they post a better time then Evo received the green light from McLaren company to introduce the article and Video, a very very cheap behavior from both Evo and McLaren.
Fortunately all professionals agree on the 918 as the winner it was because in the same day , same driver, and even without its roof and in the hands of British Mags the 918 won by 0.2s
End Of Story!

 

Thanks,

In my opinion the only reason Top Gear choice LaFerrari it was because after several wins 918 achieved over P1, the British Guys decided to move to LaFerrari camp and there is not any surprise why they choice LaFerrari over 918, I know a friend who owns both 918 and LaFerrari but he choice 918 over his LaFerrari (he is a Ferrari Guy, the 918 is his first Porsche!!) even more surprisingly he prefer the 918 engine sound with that spectacular exhausts top pipes (upward-firing pipes amid the V) to LaFerrari V12 engine sound, the 918 top pipes screaming like a F1 V8 engine!

 

918 used only one pair of tires, and could have used some better air adjustments as well, and still beat the p1 there.

 

Agree.

I have said here previously, that TG would gladly give it to the LaFe over the 918, even if the 918 deserved it in order to avoid more embarrassment.

The fact that they didn't even test the cars on a track, and/or measure performance was hilarious when claiming to test hypercars.

 

Exactly!
Agree %100
Many Thanks.

 

Yes!

That was very cold blooded and dastardly by both EVO and McLaren. LOL

Agreed.

 

The LaF Spa video from GoPro angle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aIId_-5k_A

 

ANd here is the vid with the 918 at Spa.

He specifically says that it is not meant to be viewed as a comparison since the guy with the 918 had no prior experience with the car in this track.

Great vid though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVy6tPGVRUI

 

It would be most interesting to have him provide a short summary of the pros and cons of each car - much more informative from someone who has a lot more time in each car than a journalist who only has one afternoon to make his judgements.

 

Impressive driving considering damp track, well used tires, significant traffic @ Spa & a passenger as well...

 

@Hootan

The writer/driver in the Auto Motor Und Sport article liked the sound of the 918 as well (along with the LaFe). Here's what he said:

"Aerodynamically the Porsche also has the advantage that it can be converted into a Cabrio by removing both roof sections. This not only ensures pleasant temperatures in the cockpit, but also generates a special background noise consisting of swooshing, hissing and the robust hammer of the V8. In this regard, the Ferrari can offer the shrill tone of the V12."

Veyron, LaFerrari und 918 Spyder compared: Summit meeting with 3,050 bhp - AUTO MOTOR AND SPORT

 

I can answer any questions regarding the 918 and LA ferrari video