Ferrari Lithium Battery retrofit | FerrariChat

Ferrari Lithium Battery retrofit

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by nguyennhatquang, Aug 4, 2023.

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  1. nguyennhatquang

    nguyennhatquang Karting

    Feb 13, 2016
    206
    Hanoi
    Hello anybody
    Today I did a Lithium battery retrofit in my F12,
    I just wonder why with the AGM the battery charge normally, but when I Do the lithium it doesn't charge anymore? do I need to modified anything to make it charge?
    thank you

    with Lithium Battery, the Norminal voltage of the battery at stationary is 13.2 volt, when I start the car, it drop down to 13v, that mean it doesn't charge at all, it actually drain the battery.
    With normal AGM battery, the battery voltage constant at 13.5 volt.
    Anyone have idea? thank
     
  2. nguyennhatquang

    nguyennhatquang Karting

    Feb 13, 2016
    206
    Hanoi
  3. raemin

    raemin Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2007
    2,337
    Lyon (FR)
    Full Name:
    R. Emin
    Depending on the electronic embedded in the "battery", you may have zero access to the actual Lithium cells. In this case what your ECU sees is just what the BMS (battery management system) would let it see.
     
    nguyennhatquang likes this.
  4. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    6,890
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Dominick
    I know that everyone has the lithium craze but honestly as the newer cars have more and more intelligent? Systems for monitoring the battery it is always a best to replace what the car has in there from factory unless there is a way to reprogram the IBS (e.g. BmW istp for older cars) .. I have seen what these brains store and use to make decisions and if the data they get is incorrect or what they expect you can always ask for trouble ..my two cents ..this is not specific to this post just a general comment

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
     
    tbakowsky likes this.
  5. Redneck Slim

    Redneck Slim Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed Silver Subscribed

    Mar 10, 2011
    1,651
    Palo Alto,CA,USA
    Full Name:
    Walt Kimball
    I have a Braille lithium battery in my Portofino. Stationary,ignition on,engine off,it reads about one volt more than the original agm. With that higher battery voltage,the charging system puts out less voltage when driving. For best battery life,you should use a tender that is designed for a lithium battery. I use and recommend the Optimate TM471.
     
  6. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,942
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    You do not know more than Ferrari or the team that determines what battery requirements are needed for your car. Stick with what it came with. If AGM..use it. If ledacid..use it. If H6 H7 H8. etc..use it. Stop installing problems..
     
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  7. nguyennhatquang

    nguyennhatquang Karting

    Feb 13, 2016
    206
    Hanoi
    So you has same issue with me while the alternator no charge at all?
     
  8. Redneck Slim

    Redneck Slim Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed Silver Subscribed

    Mar 10, 2011
    1,651
    Palo Alto,CA,USA
    Full Name:
    Walt Kimball
    No! It is not an "issue". The Braille battery has and holds higher voltage,so it doesn't need as much charging. The alternator still charges it just fine as I drive.
     
  9. LARRYH

    LARRYH F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 3, 2011
    9,662
    virginia usa
    in addition to all that has been said you need a battery tender that is for lithium battery ... Ferrari sells them and others but be sure to get one..
     
    020147 likes this.
  10. raemin

    raemin Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2007
    2,337
    Lyon (FR)
    Full Name:
    R. Emin
    #10 raemin, Aug 8, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2023
    That's not necessarily true.

    A "smart" lead-acid charger would be plain wrong as these types of charger do send current bursts that could fool the BMS.

    By contrast a plain basic charger would make it do if the battery comes with the a proper BMS: all it needs would be stable voltage supply, and the battery built-in electronics would take care of equalizing the cells.

    Worst case the supplied voltage is too low and the battery cannot be fully charged, which (aside from the performance loss) is not a reliability issue with lipo chemistry (by contrast lead acid needs to be fully charged so as to "clean up" the lead plates). Under charging is even better for long term reliabilty, as the polymer is more stable when the battery is charged at 20%~80% (when over/under charged it may "puff").


    In the end the problem is not the charger, but rather more the car ECU: modern cars do not have anymore a basic voltage regulator on the alternator, they do feature sophisticated voltage regulation routines so as to maintain AGM batteries. These routines are absolutely not suited to Lipo (the initial high amp over-charging of AGM is a big no-no for lipo). Here again, the BMS of your battery may be optimized to cope with the ECU charge cycle, but that's band-aid.

    An ideal lipo retrofit should include new ECU firmware.
     

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