Ferrari market values

What are you talking about? Insurance on my 360 is less than $900 a year. And I don't pay $10K a year for maintenance, even if you include gas. Owning a Ferrari ain't cheap, but it's not any where near what you contend either.

 

Don't move to New York City, Mike, or else you'll pay the 5K for the insurance.

Classic cars (>25 years) cost less than $300 a year to insure here. Once sorted, they're probably cheaper to run than the newer Ferraris as well.
The classic car prices will hold because they were hand-built in relatively small numbers. It's too bad that unless you're paying the big bucks for the GTOs, etc. the "typical" classic's performance is eclipsed by any of the newer Ferraris.

I guess the saving grace (for those who don't have one yet) is that despite the higher insurance & running costs of the mass manufactured, higher performance models (355, 360, 456, 612, Maser 4200GT, 550M, 575M), they will all dramatically fall from initial prices and finally stabilize at different levels above the 308/328 line.

Mitch, that was an interesting observation about the 2 muscle era Ferraris rising in price. Personally, I don't think that it is related to the muscle car price rise trends. It was just unrecognized value.
There's a famous Ornithologist with the same last name. Any relationship?

 

Hey Attitude, the words to the song Sinatra sings about New York sure rings true: "And if you can make it here, you can make it anywhere . . ." $5K for insurance! Wow!

 

I am totally amazed at $900 for insurance for a 360. That seems very good - I would be worried about the fine print. Denver/Colorado may not be the highest risk location relative to Chicago, but there is no way that you can insure such a car for this rate without excessive gotchas -either deductables like 10% (percent) plus or certain court battles over value at the time of loss.

 

I am not so sure the Muscle car price boom is a true bubble at this point.

Keep in mind, while its true that some muscle cars are selling for $200K+ its not as if they are the run of the mill examples. A 1970 Plymouth 426 Hemi Cuda with 4 speed, matching numbers and all fender tags, paperwork, etc. will bring that and more.... but they are very rare cars. Built in the hundreds and only over 2 years. Considering the rarity of that car, the price does not seem crazy.

Prices on the more common muscle cars have also been on a rocketship..... but remain relatively reasonable. A '68 - '69 Camaro Z28 with nice options may now bring $50K+ when it was only $25K 3 years ago, but $50K is still in a price range that lots of folks can afford. Also, the folks who lusted after these cars as teenagers are now in the their fifties and have plenty of disposable income and want to realise a dream. This is the case with lots of muscle cars.

Its important to keep in mind the relative pool of potential buyers. On a given model there may be 20 times more buyers at $50K than at $150K. Measure this against production numbers, throw in an evaluation of WHO the buyers are (real car enthusiasts or just dealers/speculators) and you can better interprete a real bubble. Back in the late 1980s you had stock broker speculators types paying $400K for a Daytona and then having it stored in a climate controlled warehouse expecting a 50% annual return.... today we have middle aged affluent car nuts who are finally able to buy the dream car of their youth.

As to Ferrari values.... from the 308 to the 360, none of these are really collectible cars and the depreciation reflects this. The production numbers are just too high and the cars are too new. This is not a bad thing! For F-car nuts it means we can soon buy that really nice '95 355 for $60K or so and have a blast!


Terry

 

Baby boomers now have the means to buy the toys they dreamed about growing up. Thus, the boom in muscle car sales. Temporary blip in demand, give it a few years and the prices will come back down.

 

good point...its just those muscle cars where such ugly crappy cars!!!! have you driven any of the 60s muscle cars lately.... i have a friend who has a big collections of multiple muscle cars... you name , he has it... i have driven most of them... not fun...i would rather drive a v6 accord!!!!

 

I think its the overpriced parts & labor, then stuck-up Ferrari dealers who say you can look but don't touch the car.

Then you get on the road and get smoked by a production Corvette Z06.

 

Attitude, I live in the heart of NYC. I've owned a 93 348 Series Speciale, a 94 348 Challenge, and a 98 355 Challenge, and have never paid as much as $2,000/year for full coverage. And that's even after Geico paid out $80k on a claim I had.

 

At least it's a Ferrari, and an expensive car.

Try paying $3.6k a year (50% of the cars value) on insurance for a 7 year old russtang GT . In two years, i had the whole cars value/worth ($7,200) payed off in insurance premiums alone. Lol.

Now that is a reaming. I had a clean record to boot. But i got the short end of the stick because i was 17.

 

I'll add that your 98 355 Challenge was not streetable, so you were paying for PTS only. I also believe you paid less than I am (not in NYC), since that particular ins. co re-vamped their pricing.

 

I think that over the last 10 years the illusion of limited availability has been eroded by the computer sites. If you walk into FOA for example they may have 7 to 10 used cars for sale and no new cars. But if you search the web then its a different picture. I think this is driving the market down because price shopping is just a touch away. The number of cars for sale is amazing to me right now.
When the supply was not so apparent then the demand by the individual was higher based the supply available. F cars still do better than new MB's by a lot.

 

Great point!

....and some dealers still price cars, looking for that one guy a week that doesn't know how to use the web

$79k for a 86 328... had a hard time not laughing when they told me that one

 

how's this for taking advantage of a screwed up insurance company (govt run monopoly) - all funds in CDA $, insured for unlimited business, cleanest driving history. I'd just need to keep the car for - oh, 40 yrs, for the cost savings to make up the difference.

1987 328: $3,000/yr
1983 308: $1,500/yr
1983 BB512i: $1,300/yr

 

I pay $680.00 per year with Allstate for my BB512i with no mileage restrictions.

 

Get this..My brother who is 18 been driving for 2 years. He wants to buy his own car. He was looking at a 98 VW Golf (not GTi) Insurance quoted him $7500 per year!!. No tickets clean record etc. He then for the heck of it asked for a quote on insurance for a 1988 Ford Tarus get this..5k a year!! Man talk about a rip off.

 

tjacoby wrote:

how's this for taking advantage of a screwed up insurance company (govt run monopoly) - all funds in CDA $, insured for unlimited business, cleanest driving history. I'd just need to keep the car for - oh, 40 yrs, for the cost savings to make up the difference.

1987 328: $3,000/yr
1983 308: $1,500/yr
1983 BB512i: $1,300/yr


That is way off the mark in terms of "government monopoly". In states where there is some degree of regulation, the insurance rates are generally lower and vice versa. I come from the industry and you are absolutely wrong on that point.

When I moved from Texas (weak regulation) my rates dropped by over 50% in Wisconsin (strong regulation) for same coverage with State Farm.

Recently I moved from Wisconsin to Oklahoma (weak regulation), the OK rates went up by 40% for the same level of coverage by State Farm (in all cases, clean records). When I checked other insurance companies out in OK, they were even higher since I was in the mutual company of State Farm.

 

valid points jcl, and I agree that regulations help, but I don't believe govt. can do a better job than private industry for insurance. In our case it is a govt. organization with a mandated monopoly on basic car insurance.

The pricing mistake of the Fcars as an example - a BB for 40% of a 328? Not that I mind if I end up on the BB side of the equation - less than most of our other cars and closer to parkerfe's coverage.

Although it does prevent the $7,500/yr problem that Tom's brother was experiencing (in Ontario?). I was contacted by a survey company last year asking my thoughts on the state of our insurance industry - and it was quite apparent that the govt. is also grappling with this issue. I don't know the answers.

I doubt anyone in the US has to deal with a state-owned car insurance group? Although seems to me I saw a TR here in Canada that the owner claimed the PO in California had to be 10% of the value of the car for registration - $15k USD or so at the time just to register the thing. Ouch.

 

My view is that the "free market" in car insurance or medical insurance, does not truly exist at this time. If a free market did exist then prices where there is little regulation would be lower than they are. The price of entry into the insurance business is prohibitive. Each company shops the competitors, and adjust prices accordingly with the interest in maintaining or increasing prices. Those price are affected as you might expect by claims and internal guidleines for paying off claims. The profitability of any given insurance company is greatly, although not totally driven by their internal money management practices. In the time of 1% prime rate their profitability may suffer, and is not necessarily due to rates or claims.

I do agree the costs are outrageous.

Walmart does look for the lowest prices in comparison to their competitors. I am waiting for the time when their "price slashing" will let me get products for free!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I know somone who had their F40 for sale for a year. They just sold it a few months ago finally for $250K. Don't believe the $300K+ prices in the FML - they just don't get that amount...

-Wayne

 

Where do you guys think the prices are going for fiberglass 308s?

-Wayne