Hello Everyone!.. My first time post. If anyone has any info on my questions, it would be greatly appreciated!... I am looking and wanting to start an apprenticeship as Ferrari Mechanic, and would like to get some of your feedback on what you know or think on how I should go about approaching FofO and David Webb (Service Manager). I know they have one apprentice on staff now.. Has anyone had or have any dealings with David Webb from FofO in any way, and what type of person is he?. Thanks alot and I really appreciate any feedback you guys can provide..
He is a top-notch exotic car mechanic at Penninsula Imports in Oakville, and has also had some experiences with the people at FoO. I'm sure he will reply to this thread when he gets back from work!
WARNING!! Take it from one Ferrari tech to another.... it ain't that flash. Typically.... the work is very repetitive, slow moving, frustrating with regard to parts supply, attracts huge critisism (but also compliments), massively expensive to get tooled up for properly....massively, apprentices may NEVER get to drive their work (and due to liability, often get menial tasks to perform while the interesting jobs are done by the experienced guys).... So, if you're still up for it...go ahead. But you earn your money with your head, not your hands. If your reason is because you want to drive Ferrari's.....train up for something else and buy your own cars in a few years!! I will say that I have had many fantastic experiences, and love my work, but even so, I wouldn't advise anyone to go the same path if they have other options. Even working on regular cars will put you on a much longer ladder. The Ferrari tech ladder has about 3 rungs..... Think long and hard about it....then RUN!
ferrarifixer.. Thanks for the feedback, but my interest in the field is to become a licensed mechanic, no interest in regards to the idea of driving them. I am a well established in my current career as an Operations Manager with a fairly good income (well above average), so my interest is not in the income level, not in the possible ability to drive such machines, I have been thinking of the career change for some time now, and I want to make the change (for personal reasons that would take to long to explain in an email). That being said, and like any career as you mentioned, a lot of work in any field becomes repetitive. My interest is to become a mechanic, and if possible, I would rather become trained on a product that is not mainstream, just like every Ferrari owner that buys a Ferrari because they want some thing special (Not saying that a Factory Trained Mechanic is special) but you get the picture.
I wrench on my own car ('75 308 GT4) and honestly speaking, its nothing different than working on another car... Well, except the fact that it reads "Ferrari" on the valve covers, instead of "_____" (insert your own brand name). But its your choice, so go for it. I chose to be what I am (welder/fabricator/truck-trailer mechanic) and I enjoy it and don't regret it. Sure there are bad days, but there are good days too and I have blast. Sure beats sitting behind a desk all day. I did that once and never again!
Being a mechanic is no walk in the park. First..Be prepared to spend upwards of 20k on tools. Not all at once mind you but you will eventualy be at that mark. Here in Canada there is no provision for mechanics to write of their tools either..only a certain amount each year. It costs money to be a mechanic. Tools, boots, gloves, etc..are all out of pocket expenses. The job itself can be fun somtimes..but most times it's very frustrating. Sometimes you get jobs that go very smoothly,other times you can loose the shirt off your back. Being a beginer..you will be lucky to make 12 bucks an hour. You will be doing oil changes,taking ou the garbage and washing floors. You WILL not be pulling enignes and diagnosing driveability issues with cars. You will be the coffee guy etc. You will also work for a cheap-o boss who will do everything possiable to cut corners. He will more then likly be a former mechanic who was the greatest in the world. When a screw up happeneds he will be there with" I never did anything so stupid" etc. Or you could wind up working for sombody that has know idea about cars..and they are even worse!! You will not only be frustrated by the job..but by the people you work with, and the fact that most times you will not beable to do the job they wa you would like to..because it's too "expensive". Do yourself a favor and find somthing else to do. It's not like on T.V. or whatg eve. It is not a glamorous job at all. Winter time is the worst. Slush snow ice, wet floors, your feet are always wet in the winter, it's cold outside and you have to go out there are try and get a car running that won't etc. Find another job to do. Forget this trade. People come and go all the time and most get out before they are licenced becuase they know the work and the trade sucks. But I really enjoy what I do. Yes it can be fun, and interesting...but even Ferrari's can become just another car. Heck working on a normal car is a nice break for me somtimes.
Poor old Tom. It's not THAT bad! Don't go jumping off a bridge or anything! Interesting though...that many Ferrari techs are either in and out the trade in a few years, or go on and on and on and on until they start their own shop and then become bitter and twisted old grumpy men....with bad hands and their wives won't let them touch them...and they stink of gear oil or brake fluid.....and they work too hard to make ends meet......breath too many exhaust fumes....and are expected to operate a free storage and credit facility while owners go away on great trips.... now, where was that bridge......
LOL!! Your right it's not that bad..but damn it it sure seems like it sometimes. I guess I should have responed on a better day. Heck today I was doing a head job on a Subaru(don't ask)..normaly a straight forward in and out job..but noooooo!!! that on head bolt had other ideas..it decided it wanted to stay...needless to say the bolt lost the battle...but once again a simple job turned into a nightmare..
yeah, that was me looking south over the edge of the bridge, it must have been you looking north.... I'll come and chat next time.....
case in point.... Got emergency job on 360C clutch. Was told I wouldn't get parts until this Thursday coming (It's tuesday night now). AMAZINGLY, I got them last Friday, and have put the car all back together, and changed the springs to suit his next track and done some more repairs along the way as the car is well beaten up. Anyway, phone the man to say "HI, Your car's ready already! Two days before I was due to even get the parts and four days before you were expecting to get it back"...his reply...... "Now you've messed my whole day up tomorrow to come and pick the car up" And he meant it. Pharking hell, what does it take to make some guys happy.....
Thanks everyone for the UNINSPIRING feedback ? Other then the industry as an hole (ASS), does anyone have any experience with FofO? Would you consider them nothing more then a garage with a large sign in front that has a HORSE on it?? (Service sided of the business) I assume, they must be the only place since they are a licensed Ferrari dealer in Ontario that they offers the Factory Training and certification on the products. Also again, what do you think of the management, do they have (Service Side) a higher level of prickness towards their Mechanics and Apprentices since they might feel that everyone would love to work for a Ferrari shop, so they might feel they are holding all of the cards. Thanks Guys!
Ferrari of Ontario has a VERY high turn over for mechanics. Basicly you get treated like a pice of dirt by the owner. I have heard many horror stories about the place about how they treat their employee's. Some are quite happy working there, but they are the guys that have stuck it out, and don't let the boss get to them. Trust me...find somthing else to do for a career. It's not all fun and games. You need to be a certain type of person to be able to handel this job. I for one enjoy it most times. But when those bad times come..you just want to lock up you tools and never look back.
If one of the reasons for going to the dealer is to get factory training there are some things you should know. Just for some back ground I have been employed in Ferrari dealers for most of my career since 1979 and just finished my most recent dealer job about a year and a half ago at one of North Americas largest volumn dealers as shop foreman. Ferrari has very few schools and repeats them only often enough to put one or maybe two of a dealers mechanics through them. In many cases FNA will pick the mechanic to go and although the dealer can override that decision (if the service manager has the will or courage to fight them) the dealer will in almost all cases send the guy with the most seniority or the one who has the most suction with the service manager. I have known many Ferrari mechanics that have been in the business for years and have never attended a factory training class. Large, high volumn dealers are actually penalized for their success by not being allowed to send a meaningful portion of their mechanics for training. For many years we were promised that if interest was shown they would repeat classes. I have NEVER seen that come to fruition. One of the reasons for that is that Ferrari is small enough that their class instructor(s) have many other job duties and simply don't have the time. In spite of the fact that FNA has over the years had several very good and knowledgeable instructors many of which I still consider friends their training progran SUCKS. When you compare it to companies like Rolls, Bentley or Lamborghini it REALLY SUCKS.
Tom.. From the feedback from the community (limited) and other friends and family, I might be re thinking it.. But isnt it so ironic based on your feedback that the owner of FofO who was once an apprentice himself and then became a mechanic for many years has little respect for his own employees (mechanics), Wonder what kind of inner anger is festering inside or maybe over the years of being a mechanic and the amount of BS he had to take from his former bosses and customers left him with this anger, and maybe he thinks it is payback time!!! P.S (I can only assume that his employees are not a bunch dumb asses). Funny eh.. I think it might be time to move on to some other brand! Thanks alot again guys...
Yeah, isnt it sad? He should remember when back in the day he was working hard as a tech at Yonge And Steels Motors (The first and only Ferrari Importer in the country at the time if im not mistaken). If it's true about how he treats his employee's, he should remember the days when he had to sweat it out for Mr. Popovich when he was still alive I worked for him at his BMW store back in 2000 and had a good experience so who know's. Vasco.R
A lot of the arguments here against going into Ferrari fixing are very similar to the ones that I could present to a young man or woman or a career changer about the downside of architecture as a profession. I mean, work is work, no matter how you cut it, and if someone has an ambition to go into my profession and asks my opinion, I try to give them a balanced view without killing their enthusiasm. A lot of times the interesting work is found outside the mainstream--Maybe train up to specialize in vintage and classics? You would probably end up in an independent shop, working on some choice cars, with a lot of different assignments thrown at you--similar to working as I did in small architectural practices, including my own, that specialized in expensive and highly detailed traditionally and classically styled homes.
Very true. You can always go off the beaten trail and go to work at some small independant shop for a guy who actually has a heart and work on "choice cars". To me, going out on your own in any field is always best. Go after a niche market and you will do well. But remember, one always needs to do their homework regardless of where they go. Vasco.R
How many times have you had to go out side in -30 weather and fiddle with a drawing that didn't start? Do your feet get wet sitting at the drafting table? Is your back aching every morning when you get out of bed? Do you hands cramp up for no reason at anytime? Do you have scrapped up hands and arms..and prema grease under your finger nails? Do you have to invest in 20-40k worth of tools just to do your job..even when you work for sombody else? Do you have to worry if the boss turned the heat on because he;s too cheap to keep his employee's happy? Would you do all this for an average fully experianced mechanic with a licence (which he must renew at his cost every 3 years and also pay to keep himself updated) for 27 bucks an hour? I didn't think so. You get paid well for a stressful job. We get paid poorly for a very stressful job.
Tom, After your last post, I only have one question... Why do it then? Really, if it is that bad, what's the point? There must be enough good to out-weigh the bad, no?
I do the job because I enjoy doing it...But what I have a really hard time with is people who do not understand what it takes to do this job all the time. You really do have to have a love of cars in order to continue on. There are many posts on this site regarding tech/shops who have "screwed" up a car. They seem to think that doing this job is easy, and only a low life uneducated person becomes a mechanic because they couldn't do anything else. Well that is so far from the truth it's not even funny. Doing this job is hard work. It's hard on your body..but also very hard on your mind. Gone are the days of easy jobs on a car. Things are so tightly packed in most engine bays now, that it takes more time to remove stuff that is in the way, then it does to change or repair the cause of the trouble. Most people just don't understand the amount of time somthings take to do. When I tell a customer it takes an hour to change the airfilter on an Audi QT..they freak...then I take them out to the shop and tell them to replace the filter themselves. Once they realize the amount of work it takes to change..they no longer complain and the say they are sorry, most times. But they complain about the car afterwards saying "how can they build car car so it takes an hour to change an air filter?"..I respond..welcome to my world. To better understand my postion..have a look through this site and notice the posts about repairs people have tried to do on there own, only to realize that it's not as easy as it first appeard. Notice on may occations the "next time I will take it to a mechanic" phrase. They now understand that it is not that easy. That it is not just nuts a bolts. I have had people look down on me because I'm a mechanic. The first thing that comes to most people's mind when you tell them, is "thief". This is not fair. It has gotten to the point were I try not to tell people what I do. It's not that I'm ashamed of it..very far from it...it's just that I don't want to get involved in a conversation like.."yea I took my car to a mechanic and he did this and that" etc..then I fined myself trying to justify my job and the trade in gereral. But the next thing you know they always ask you..."hey I'll give you a case of beer if you fix this" ..what? does every mechanic run on beer or somthing? If you want somthing done..I will change you a fair price for it..but I don't want beer..I can't pay my bills with a 24 of Canadian. I really do enjoy the hands on working on cars. Most days there is nothing I would rather be doing..but other days just don't go right and you get totaly furstrated and angry. The job is a very under paid position, for the amount of knowledge a good tech must have. Here is an example of the different types of cars I'm working on at the moment: I have the engine out of a Jag XKE for a clutch and oil leaks...I'm doing a complete engine rebuild on a chev Corvette..so that car is also apart at the moment and the parts are at the machine shop. I'm installing a short block assembly in a Subaru becuase it overheated..I have a Testarossa that only starts somtimes..but ever since it's gotten to my shop it starts everytime..so thats a head scratcher. I have a 355 that when cold only fires on one bank..but as soon as it's warm it runs fine..usually this works the other way around..but anyway..I have a Lotus Superseven in for carb adjustments and other little things. I have to know how to work on all these cars. I have to know what to do and how to do it. I have so many different makes, models and years of cars comming into the shop that I'm expected to fix and service..and never make a mistake. Well I'll be the first to admit that I have make mistakes and I will never pretend otherwise. But again I really enjoy the oppertunity to do this type of work. I am very greatful that each time I go into work. I'm working on somthing different almost everyday. But it does become stressful and it can get very trying at times. You have to remember..your mechanic is not a robot. He will get angry and upset when he is put under pressure. This in turn will cause him to forget somthing on sombodies car maybe evn your car. But he is trying his best and does do the best he can to keep people happy. Most techs want to keep their customer happy..and try to save them money aswell as providing an excellent level of work. But there are times when this is impossiable..and that is when we "rip them off". But again..we do not make the cars, or price the parts. We have to fix them when they are broken. I hope you understand a little bit of what we guys have to go through on a daily basis. Obviously it's not the worst job I could be doing..But you have to be the "right" kind of person do this this work. It is not all driving around in fancy cars etc, and it's not what it appears looking through the shop window at all the nice car in the shop. These cars are there to be fixed. Not played with, and taken out for a drive. They are not my cars..people own them and love them..and it's my job to keep them in order. But that is hard work bit for me most of the time it is enjoyable work. If I left the trade I fear I would miss it alot..I just like being under the hood and getting my hands dirty..Yes it's a thankless job..but I do enjoy it.
