Folks, you've got a fantastic forum going here, tons of useful info and discussions! I am a newbie and Ferrari-wannabe-owner, having parted company with my beloved '95 BMW M3 which left a gaping void in my garage. The challenge now is to find a 308 or 328, to be used as a weekend, non-track, fun car. Red/tan is a must, as well as targa top. I live in Northern California, so CA smog check mandatory, too. I plan to make all the mistakes a first-time Ferrari owner can make, but hope to minimize them with your help. Therefore, I am thinking that a concourse-grade, investment-type car will not be my best option, I'd rather accept "issues" in exchange for a lower price (?). If anyone knows of cars for sale (I am constantly checking Hemmings, DuPont, etc. as well as dealers) please drop me a line. Thanks! Werner
Also, www.collectorcartraderonline.com. (Search URL: http://ww2.collectorcartraderonline.com/search.php). 9 cars currently listed. This is where I found my 328. --Mike
Werner, My car is listed on EBAY. I am located in San Diego. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=280004476379&ih=018&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT PM me if you want more info. Thanks, Craig
Read the buyer's guide on my site for good basic background info: http://www.birdmanferrari.com Birdman
You may want to read the 328 primer, a work in progress by yours truly. It needs some updating but should give you some insight into the 328
Consider also a subscription to the Ferrari Market Letter, which has constantly-updated online ads for the various models, price comparisons, etc. http://www.ferrarimarketletter.com/
Welcome! Actually, you don't want to plan to make any mistakes, because in the Ferrari parallel universe you can spend most of your savings digging yourself out. In a 308/328, you'll want to pay special attention (and have a pre-purchase inspection, or "PPI") to make sure the engine is making good compression, and the gearbox/syncros are working properly. So, be careful about which "issues" you accept. A little wear on the leather seats, an old clutch, slow power windows and such aren't deal-breakers, IMO. But you want a car that has had appreciative and attentive owners who kept on top of things. I.e., bald tires are certainly replaceable, but why were they let go so long? BTW, the first mistake people make -- twice recently on this board -- is to buy a 308/328 without first driving one. Check the "Why you sold your Ferrari so soon" thread. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=109260 Definitely check Tillman!'s primer -- good stuff.
Welcome Werner, I was in your seat for a good 8 months before I found what I was looking for. The F owners here are outstanding and willing to help out. That said its my turn to say "check your PM", I'll be more than willing to try to help where I can. I have a great compilation of info, some found by myself, other info provided by FChat Members. Ie, 328 Primer. Great stuff. John
I certainly appreciate all the PM's, links to websites, and the encouragement. I am reading about engines overheating and catching fire, $25k engine rebuilds, and such, but still I feel a newbie like me is going to be in good hands here! I live in Danville, CA, which hosted its first annual "Danville D'Elegance" last year (http://www.danville-delegance.org). There was a very nice 328 owner from Pleasanton who warned me not to buy anything that hasn't passed California emissions testing. Would you guys share that concern? I have no problem buying from an out-of-state private owner (financing is not a concern), but I don't want to expose myself to the risk of not passing Cali smog. Will it help to get a pre-purchase inspection at the location of the seller, before committing and shipping the car? Werner P.S. Bullfigher-Jon: of course I was exaggerating by saying that I "plan" to make all the mistakes of a newbie! Thanks for pointing out acceptable vs. unacceptable "issues". Tillman: thanks for the excellent primer Birdman: thanks for the excellent 308 history! Like you, I suffer from Magnum P.I. syndrome.
Cali has strict emissions as you know. That said, a properly running fuel-injected car (308 models from 1980 on, which excludes the carb models, and all 328 models [1985-1989]) should have no problems passing emissions. Of course they have catalytic converters and relatively modern emissions equipment (per federal requirements). A CA car was a plus for this reason when I was looking--it forces people to keep their cars in shape and in proper tune. Yes, they can and will fail emissions if they're not in top shape. It's also possible they can be running fine but their fuel mixture has been intentionally richened to the point of failing emissions. Also, previous owners may have removed catalytic converters, in which case you have no hope of finding emissions. Carb cars are trickier--they burn less clean in general (partially realted to older air injection systems and older design cats) and you do hear stories of people struggling with carb 308s (but there are stories on the fuel injected 308s and 328s and every other honda and toyota out there too). If you'll be registering in Cali, and your emissions are stricter than where the 308/328 came from, then there is a risk, yes, of not passing emissions. A knowledgeable barring things like missing catalytic converters, getting them tuned up is not a grand ordeal and a knowledgable Ferrari mechanic can whip things into shape without much of an issue. You have to move forward though, with confidence, knowing that a good car in a good state of tune is going to pass emissions fine. --Mike
I bought a 328 out of NC and Georgia. They're all 50-state emissions cars, and labeled as such in the engine bay. Mine ('87) passed CA smog by a very safe margin, and frankly it wasn't in top form after a week-or-so enclosed truck ride across the country in winter and a couple months of almost zero miles prior to that. Just make sure the catalytic converter hasn't been removed. In my experience, Mike328 is right, a properly tuned 328 isn't going to have any problem passing here.
I have put 2 injected 308's and 2 328's through Colorado emissions which are as tough as any. They have to go on a dyno roller when tested. All passed very easily every time. One even had the O2 sensor disconnected and still passed. Unless something in the fuel system is seriously out of adjustment and the cats are in place, emissions should be no problem as long as it is a US market car. Euro cars have different cams, different ignitions and cats added afterwards and can be very tough to pass US emissions. Dave
Excellent point and very important to keep in mind. When I was looking for my 328, I was considering a Euro one where the guy mentioned he kept it registered in a non-emissions county (even though other counties in the state did emissions?) to avoid this issue.
folks - thanks for the guidance. I bought my 1995 BMW M3 brand new. In 2005, after approx. 150k miles, the cat was totally shot and had to be replaced with a new one. We are now talking about cars twice that age and more - should I even expect the cat to be original to the car (even at lower mileage), or is it likely and even desirable to see a new cat? -Werner
I have not heard of anyone having to change a cat in a 80's vintage car, though I am sure it happens. As long as the car is not running rich, I believe the cats last a really long time. I should note that the 80-83 cars have 2 cats and an air pump. In 84 they eliminated the air pump and have a single cat. Aftermarket cats are available. Some people replace the cat with a test pipe, a simple procedure. Dave
The 328 is a great choice as they are as reliable as any Ferrari and there are plenty of fine examples. I was scared to buy as I am far from rich. When I was looking for a 328 I would convince myself to buy by saying......I can buy a car with 30k miles for $45k and drive it for 5 years (20k miles) and it will still be worth $38k. YOU MUST DO A PPI FOR YOUR PIECE OF MIND BY AN EXPERIENCED FERRARI MECHANIC AND THERE ARE PLENTY IN YOUR AREA! The chances of you blowing your engine if you maintain your car and check the fluids are very, very, slim. For the record I never bought the the 328 GTB I wanted instead buying a glass 308 GTB I found on Ferrariads.com. I had a PPI done by David Castellano (highly recommended) who I found on this sight and the rest is history! I just came in from a short ride and you should have seen the smile on my face. I have a great wife, son, family, dog, house, job, and this little car is icing on the cake. You have to get one!
You can buy mine. Check out this link. http://www.ferrarichat.com/ferrariads/showproduct.php?product=1175&sort=1&cat=11&page=3
