News

Ferrari of San Antonio sold me a damaged CPO car, lied to me, refuses to make it right.

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by dgoldenz94, Sep 16, 2020.

  1. dgoldenz94

    dgoldenz94 Karting

    Apr 13, 2020
    191
    Full Name:
    David Gold
    #1 dgoldenz94, Sep 16, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
    Hey everyone, I wanted to post about my recent extremely poor experience with Ferrari of San Antonio and my interactions with salesperson Philip Antinone and the general manager of the dealership, Grenville (Gren) Lewis.

    Here’s the short version: They sold me a damaged car as CPO, Philip Antinone lied to me about the condition of the car, the GM ignored me for weeks, and now they refuse to reimburse me for what we agreed on.

    Here’s the long version:

    At the end of June I saw they had listed a 2013 FF with 48k miles on it as a CPO car with 2-year warranty for $109k. The build looked perfect, so I called the dealer and was put in touch with one of the salesman, Philip Antinone. I asked if he could send me a walkaround video and he told me that he couldn’t text me a video because he has an Android phone and I have an iPhone, so the file size was too large. He sent a few pictures of the car and it looked good, so I made an offer of $100k shipped to my location. He quickly countered that they could do $100k as a bottom line price but I would have to pay for the shipping. Ok, done deal.

    I asked again if Philip could send me a walkaround video of the car or do a Google Duo walkaround:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    He said yes of course we can do the Duo call. Never happened. I went ahead and sent the $5k figuring this is a certified car, it must be in good condition. Well, that was a huge mistake.

    In one of my text messages with Philip, I asked him if CPO fixes any sticky buttons and leather shrinkage/repairs that need to be done. His exact reply: “Has none of that” as shown here:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login


    Here is a statement directly from the CPO checklist. It is hard to read, but you can see that it says "Interior condition: Leather including trunk compartment" which is checked as satisfactory, and "Close scrutiny of paint work/body work" which is also checked as satisfactory. See the pictures below and judge for yourself whether this looks "satisfactory" to you or not.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    It took the dealer five weeks to get the car finished through the certification process. I finally got the car on July 30th. Upon dropoff, I immediately noticed there were major stains and discoloration all over the interior. The pickup driver showed me that there was a broken/dented spot on the front right fender with significant paint damage. Here is a picture of the damage prior to pickup, so we know it was not anything the truck driver did:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login


    Here is a list of all of the damages/scratches all over the car and a few more pictures. I know these guys are thorough when they document this stuff, but this is a lot of damage:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Image Unavailable, Please Login



    There are two noticeable paint bubbles (mind you this is a $28k paint option Bianco Italia), one on the driver’s side door and one on the right taillight area. There was a broken red reflector on the passenger side. Some of the buttons were sticky. The A/C control panel was so loose that you could slide them side to side as if there was no adhesive backing the panel. I contacted Philip by email and sent him the pictures of the damage and told him I was extremely disappointed in the condition of the car for something that is supposed to be CPO. His exact response (this is a snippet of the full email):


    David,

    Thank you for the email. I am sorry you are not pleased with your purchase. As a 7 year old Ferrari, things are not perfect cosmetically, but this is beyond that


    So, obviously he agrees that there is a significant amount of damage and asked me what he wanted me to do. I wanted to see what it would cost to fix all of this stuff so I arranged an estimate from a body shop and leather expert.

    I took the car to Exoticar Paintworks in Las Vegas, which is the only Ferrari-approved shop in the city. They told me that the only way to fix the damage is to replace the entire panel and gave me an estimate of $6,876 for a new panel painted and installed:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    I thought the interior could be fixed by a leather shop so I arrange to have my detailer look at it and provide a recommendation. As soon as he looked at it he told me within 10 seconds that someone had already dyed the interior of the car. He showed me all of the blue overdye spots on the white seat piping and how the white stitching on the top half of the dash and door panels was now blue from the dye. There was even blue dye on the rear parcel shelf stitching in the trunk. He had his leather expert come look at the car and she immediately said the same thing after taking one look and that she could not fix the damage. Since the detailer’s shop is not a Ferrari-approved place, I got in contact with Rich Kansky, the head of the Las Vegas service department. He was very helpful and put me in touch with the Ferrari-recommended shop in Vegas that he’s been using for 25 years, Ian’s Auto Interiors.

    I took it to the recommended shop and they immediately told me the same thing, it had already been dyed and the dye is now bleaching out from sun damage. After looking over the car, they told me they would not touch the car because it could open a bigger can of worms and it was not worth the risk to them, same thing the first woman told me. In their words, “there is no way to fix it”. This is a shop that specializes in exotics and works with them every day. Both leather experts told me the only way it could be fixed was to put a new interior in the whole car. Here are pictures of some of the stains and discoloration. I have videos too but wasn’t sure of the best way to upload them:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login


    Image Unavailable, Please Login


    Image Unavailable, Please Login


    Image Unavailable, Please Login


    Image Unavailable, Please Login



    Since the leather cannot be fixed, I told Philip that I either wanted a significant amount of money returned to me based on the damages, or the dealer would take the car back, unwind the transaction, AND return the $1500 I paid to have the car delivered to “make me whole” again. He said he would let Grenville (the GM) know and have him call me.

    On my first call with Grenville, I point blank asked him if he felt that the condition of the car was acceptable for a Ferrari-Approved car. He told me that he looked at the pictures Philip sent me and felt they were acceptable, which is a load of crap because they don’t show any of the damage AT ALL. I’m not sure if he ever bothered looking at the pictures I sent or not.

    He then tells me “the price you paid was commensurate with the condition of the car” as if he could care less about the $100,000 that I just gave them, and as if I had paid $120,000 that somehow it would magically put the car into better condition. I told him the price was in line with market value for a car with 48,000 miles on it. He tried to tell me that he could sell the car for $180,000 if it was in perfect condition. Of course anyone that knows the FF market knows that is an absurd statement. There isn’t a single FF on the market for $180k, let alone one with 48k miles on it.

    I told Grenville that if he did not make things right, I would contact Ferrari corporate and get them involved, and I would also post my experience with documented pictures on Fchat, Rennlist, Ferrari/exotic social media groups, yelp, Google reviews, etc. He asked me what I wanted from them to make it right and I said that I either wanted a significant refund (we never discussed an exact figure) or they take the car back AND return the $1,500 I paid for shipping. This was made very clear in our phone call.

    The next day he called and told me that they will take the car back and unwind the transaction. This was all in the beginning of August. I know things take time, but the car was not picked up from my house until September 2. So now I have paid for 2.5 months of car insurance at $200/month for a car I got to drive for one week, and I can't take the insurance off the car until it arrives back at the dealer.

    On August 18th, I emailed Philip Antinone asking him to confirm that the $1500 would be included with the refunded payment because I wanted to make sure of it before they picked up the car. My exact words were “Please note that when I spoke with the GM I told him I wanted to also be refunded the $1500 I paid to have the car transported. When he called me Thursday to let me know he would agree to take the car back, he did not mention the $1500 so I wanted to be sure that was part of the agreement. “

    Philip’s response: “I was not told any of what you discussed, so I do not know what was agreed to or not”

    I asked him to confirm with the GM, he said he will ask. I never got a response.


    Fast forward to September 3rd, the car is now already in transport back to them. I emailed Philip again asking him to confirm the amounts of the checks they would be sending me because I wanted to make sure the $1500 was included. His response:


    David

    Currently, the 1st check is for the payment you made. All will be paid what they are due. BOA and you. I do not have access to the exact numbers. You will have one check for your payment made to BOA and a second check will be printed when the car arrives in the amount of your down payment. BOA will be paid the balance due on the loan in full.



    He could have simply asked what the numbers were or put me in touch with someone that had access to them, but that would be too much effort. Personally, I think he didn’t want to tell me that they weren’t going to pay me back the $1500 and they had known all along, otherwise they would not have danced around it every time I asked.

    On September 9, I emailed Philip that I had received the two checks, one for the single loan payment I made and one for the down payment amount. I asked about the $1500 yet again and told him Grenville has not contacted me yet after Philip had repeatedly told me that Grenville would call me. Philip emails me back September 10 to tell me he passed along my request to Grenville and that Grenville was “on a rare vacation through the holiday” for Labor Day which is why he hadn’t responded. Ok fine, but why hasn’t he responded now that it is Thursday when Labor Day was on Monday and I asked about this a week ago?

    Philip emails me back to say that my request would be better delivered directly to Grenville. It appears Philip is tired of dealing with this. I asked Philip for Grenville’s email address because I wanted to keep everything in writing at this point, no more promises over the phone. He did not respond, so I found it myself online and emailed Grenville on Friday, September 11, asking when I can expect the $1500. No response.

    Grenville read my email several times on Saturday the 12th and Monday the 14th (verified by Read Receipts). Still no response. I emailed Philip on Tuesday the 15th asking what the deal was and why isn’t Grenville responding to any of my emails or requests to talk with him. Philip emails me back with “I have forwarded all your correspondence on this and all matters. Rest assured; he is aware. At this point, we are both waiting for a reply.”

    I asked what are they waiting on a reply about? He is the GM and makes the decisions. Are they going to give me the $1500 or not?

    Today, I received the following email from Grenville. Notice how he mentions the “slow” (i.e. non-existent) response at the beginning, which is 100% on his end, not mine. Notice how he blames me at the end as if it is my fault they sold me a CPO car with undisclosed damage:


    David,

    While the response has been slower than we both would like; I believe we have been more than accommodating in rectifying the situation. When we discussed the issue; I said that I would repurchase the car and return all of your dollars you’ve spent with us. We’ve borne the brunt of a situation that has two culpable parties and I’m not willing to shoulder anymore.

    Ferrari Customer Care is managed by Thomas Fleming; Thomas.fleming@ferrari.com.

    Best,

    Grenville (Gren) Lewis V
    General Manager



    Did I mention they are still selling this car and none of the pictures show any of the damage that the car was returned for? See for yourself: https://sanantonio.ferraridealers.com/en_us/search-used-ferrari/2013/ferrari/ff/2013_ferrari_ff-ferrari_of_san_antonio-ZFF73SKA3D0190679

    Check picture 14, you can even see the dent if you look closely, but there are no close-up pictures of ANY of the damage that I reported. So now they must know about the damage, yet they are still not showing prospective buyers that it is there. What kind of shady business practices is that?

    So, there you have it. Philip lied to me about the condition of the car and failed to disclose any of the damage. Grenville lied to me and then avoided any interaction with me for an entire month despite my repeated attempts to get in contact with him and verify what would be paid back to me. Now they tell me to screw off and blame me for their own shady business practices. Nice way for Ferrari to treat their first-time customers. If anyone here is considering the purchase of a car from Ferrari of San Antonio, run for the hills and never, ever do business with this dealership. I am currently waiting for a call from Thomas Fleming, the manager of Ferrari customer care. Will provide any relevant updates.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. flat_plane_eddie

    flat_plane_eddie F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Mar 30, 2013
    2,833
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Eddie
    Sorry to see this happen to you. Always best to check out a car in person, I know it's a little late for that but just keep it in mind for future purposes.
     
    Circle K, Formula1r, APA#1 and 2 others like this.
  4. dgoldenz94

    dgoldenz94 Karting

    Apr 13, 2020
    191
    Full Name:
    David Gold
    This is the first time I have ever bought a car without seeing it in person, it will also be the last. I offered to fly to San Antonio to pick it up and drive home . Philip told me it would be best not to fly in due to COVID outbreaks in San Antonio and my dad is high risk so it wouldn't be the best idea anyway. If he had simply sent me the walkaround video/done a Google Duo call like I asked 3 times, the whole situation could have been avoided.
     
    Ray Smith, Dr. K, tres55 and 3 others like this.
  5. Scott98

    Scott98 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 3, 2004
    2,160
    Weston, FL
    Full Name:
    Scott
    Sorry about your experience. Oddly, looks like they relisted the car for $134,900 even though you said it was originally listed for $109,000.
     
  6. dgoldenz94

    dgoldenz94 Karting

    Apr 13, 2020
    191
    Full Name:
    David Gold
    Yep. They had it listed for $135k, then dropped it to like $119k, Then $115k, then $107k, now it's back to $135k. No idea what they are doing or thinking over there. Absolutely zero chance someone pays anywhere close to $135k for this car. Even if it was in absolutely perfect condition it would never sell for close to that with 48k miles. This is an $80k car IMO.
     
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 13, 2014
    22,622
    DFW, Texas
    Full Name:
    Tom C
    imahorse likes this.
  9. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    15,741
    horrendous experience but they did you a favor - that spec if atrocious. you will do better all around on the next one!
     
  10. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Sorry for that experience !


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  11. artsd

    artsd Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    May 6, 2009
    278
    Full Name:
    Art
    Horrible story but if you got out of this for $1500, then I think you are fortunate. The body work estimate looked very reasonable but how would you ever fix that leather without a complete interior swap? I've seen Toyota's with 250,000 miles that have like new interiors. How Ferrari gets away with their interior quality is beyond me. Thanks for sharing the dealership experience.
     
    JrBucksco, technom3, Husker and 15 others like this.
  12. To remove this ad click here.

  13. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    15,741
    yeh and now you know you love the car so you can buy one and not have buyers remorse.
     
    paulchua likes this.
  14. Art138

    Art138 Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 22, 2007
    889
    Ft. Lauderdale
    The scrapes on the bottom of the front bumper tells a lot of the former owner. The car does not appear to have been cared for. I learned my lesson many years ago....I now personally inspect any prospective car I might buy.
     
  15. dgoldenz94

    dgoldenz94 Karting

    Apr 13, 2020
    191
    Full Name:
    David Gold
    You can't fix it, it is totally ruined. It looks even worse in the daylight with the sun shining on the stains and discoloration.
     
    Ray Smith likes this.
  16. mikesufka

    mikesufka F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 4, 2006
    4,021
    Crosslake, MN
    Full Name:
    Mike Sufka
    Horrible story but I think you’re lucky you’re only out $1500.

    I had a great experience with “Jakes Motorcars” in San Diego with a GT3 several years ago ... maybe I got lucky ? Sight unseen and the car was awesome.

    Good luck on the next one.

    MDS
     
    SECRET and GatorFL like this.
  17. carguyjohn350

    carguyjohn350 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 7, 2007
    3,173
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    John P
    How do dealers not understand that the $1500 they made on this is in no way worth the negative publicity?

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
     
  18. IloveGT

    IloveGT Formula 3

    Oct 17, 2015
    1,602
    well, I'd like to point out a different perspective here. I surmise that you are not posting your experiences for our sympathy but rather you are warning us about this situation with the dealership. I want to assert that you have made several mistakes in this situation. Not flying out to see that car is literally a old news. #1. you should never post in such details on internet for anything that is potentially legal in nature. The reasons are simple. You don't want to spend time in defending what you have written. The benefits of us knowing the details is easily outweighted by the ammunition the other side gained. #2. you are extremely lucky to have the car purchased back with only few phone calls in the big picture here, and I am sure you know that. Losing $1500 is nothing, simply because if today you were to fly out there. It would have caused you $1500 anyway with airfare and lodging, right? Therefore, as much as I have empathy for you, I cannot help but think you are ranting here because you are angry. That leads to point #3. Never write things down on social media when you are upset.

    Good luck! $1500 is so cheap for this lesson of potential $100000.

    Now go buy another FF now!
     
    GT2goneF, Saabfreak, ckinsey and 14 others like this.
  19. dgoldenz94

    dgoldenz94 Karting

    Apr 13, 2020
    191
    Full Name:
    David Gold
    That is exactly what I told them, and I gave them every opportunity to make it right before posting this. They made their choice.

    Correct, I am simply warning others about this dealership. Another forum member contacted me recently and is having problems with the same dealer.

    I have purchased most of my cars from private sellers and had a thorough PPI completed prior to flying out and driving home with the car. When you are buying CPO, there is no PPI available because that is what the dealer is supposed to be doing. Therefore, I have no independent set of eyes to look at the car and tell me what's wrong with it.

    This is my first time ever buying a car without seeing it in person first and I got the worst case scenario dropped off at my house. If COVID was not happening I definitely would have flown out and driven home, but COVID threw a monkey wrench into that and San Antonio had a major outbreak at the time so it wasn't really feasible.

    I could care less about the $1500, it is the principal of telling someone you will do something and then failing to honor it, then avoiding them every step of the way. I am in sales myself and could never imagine treating a customer like that.
     
    Ray Smith, JL350, tritone and 2 others like this.
  20. LightGuy

    LightGuy Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 4, 2004
    32,565
    Texas
    Full Name:
    David
    Many assume CPO means like new.
    It does not.
    It means mechanically warranted.
    Cosmetically is a different story.

    A clever dealer will use this to their advantage for a long distance purchaser.
     
    technom3, Husker, paulchua and 5 others like this.
  21. dgoldenz94

    dgoldenz94 Karting

    Apr 13, 2020
    191
    Full Name:
    David Gold
    The CPO checklist disagrees:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    Marco308 and SECRET like this.
  22. LightGuy

    LightGuy Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 4, 2004
    32,565
    Texas
    Full Name:
    David
    Based upon whom's opinion ?
    Mechanical failures covered by CPOs are factual conditions.
    Cosmetic discrepancies are a matter of opinion.

    You buy your CPO car unseen.
    Not me.
     
    technom3, paulchua and vraa like this.
  23. dgoldenz94

    dgoldenz94 Karting

    Apr 13, 2020
    191
    Full Name:
    David Gold
    Based on the training of Ferrari-trained technicians that know what to look for?

    If this car is satisfactory I would like to know what is not satisfactory. I will find out if Ferrari customer care thinks this car is satisfactory when I speak with Thomas Fleming. Maybe someone can explain to me what “close scrutiny of paint work and body work” means when cars are leaving the dealer with paint damage and a dent in the body.
     
  24. jdlegg

    jdlegg Karting

    Dec 22, 2009
    199
    Bryan
    Full Name:
    James Legg
    Sadly, not surprised. Sorry to hear of your issues.
     
    vraa likes this.
  25. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    16,124
    Never, and I mean NEVER, buy a product, any product (in this case a used Ferrari for 100 Grand) just online and without personal inspection. Especially as a "first time Ferrari buyer". And you cannot blame Covid for not being able to travel. In this case you should have been willing to wait with your purchase.
    Plus, re-read very carefully post #15. That fchat member is so absolutely right.

    Marcel Massini
     
    ckinsey, paulchua, Avia11 and 10 others like this.
  26. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    16,124
    But don't forget to inspect it personally and with your own eyes and in daylight/outside and with enough time.

    Marcel Massini
     
    paulchua, Avia11, enio45 and 5 others like this.
  27. TUTTSF

    TUTTSF Karting

    Sep 21, 2018
    125
    So. Cal
    I see that this dealership likes the used car side of business as they always are in the searches for used Ferraris
    and I looked at several of their 458's when searching for mine online.

    I bought my 458 spyder without seeing it but the exotic car dealer sent every pic I wanted plus 2 videos. I had an inde shop do the PPI and they gave me a clear report on the condition of the car, 9 out of 10 slight bolster wear and slight sticky on R and Auto buttons plus minor stone chips all with pics.
    Scariest purchase at 200k + but felt the dealer was willing to put all his promises in writing as to the condition and promise that I could inspect the car while the delivery truck was still there and if it wasn't every thing he said it was I could refuse delivery and cancel the sale. I confirmed with the driver that this was the actual instructions he was given and it was. Car was better than promised so I put it my garage.

    Red flags all over your description on how the sales guy was dodging you, like he couldn't go find another sales person with in I phone to take a video for you, poor salesman ship or he's dodging big red flag.

    I agree you got off cheap

    When you want something really expensive always bring in a cool calm head to help you see the whole picture as we will always miss something that we should have seen that was right in front of us as you probably see looking back at it now.

    Like others have said lesson learned, I maybe got lucky but I was skeptical as this 458 was 15k cheaper than all the other Spyders I was looking at and had better options than the others and had 3400 miles on a '13, I purchased it in '18 1 owner, how could it be so much less, so my eyes were wide open looking for what you ended up with a beat up car.

    Good hunting for your new to you Ferrari
     
  28. asianbond

    asianbond Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 8, 2003
    1,258
    Full Name:
    Chris
    40,000 mile ferrari will most likely not be concours perfect as you expect.
     
    technom3, paulchua, vraa and 2 others like this.

Share This Page