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Ferrari P4 replica?

Discussion in 'General Automotive Discussion' started by aosune, Mar 28, 2010.

  1. aosune

    aosune Rookie

    Mar 28, 2010
    3
    I'm in the market for a Ferrari P4 replica. Please advise me where I can get my hands on one and approximately how much one would cost. Also, what advise do you have on the different replica manufacturers and how does one replica compare to the other. Thanks, A
     
  2. ApexOversteer

    ApexOversteer F1 Veteran

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    #2 ApexOversteer, Mar 28, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  3. slm

    slm F1 Rookie
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    #3 slm, Mar 28, 2010
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    I have a Jim Carpenter rebuild. I feel it is well done and it has a 67 V12 in it which was converted to fuel injection. Sound and experience is very cool. Very involving to drive.
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  4. aosune

    aosune Rookie

    Mar 28, 2010
    3
    How do I get in touch with Jim Carpenter? Also, is there a list of builders for the P4 within the US? And if we were to compare the different builds which one would be the most accurate. I don't have the kind of change to buy Norwood's replica... so lets leave that out. How does RCR compare against Jim Carpenter? And how to these both compare against some of the stuff coming out of the UK?
     
  5. Future ferrari collector

    Oct 12, 2006
    1,760
    The P series must be one of the most beautiful cars ever built. Does Ferrari hassle the replica makers for placing the badges on or is it the owner's prerogative to do as they wish once the car is delivered?
     
  6. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ

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    How Accurate are they? are they more of less identical to the original one?
     
  7. DGS

    DGS Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #7 DGS, Mar 29, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2010
    FWIW:

    From http://www.flickr.com/groups/p4replica/:
    For the tube frame cars, I don't suppose there'd be accurate enough blueprints of the original machines, for those who wanted to recreate it exactly, by hand. (That'd be a hobby to keep you busy a while. ;))

    The problem would be that, in the process of hand building a car, there'd be endless opportunity and temptation to make "improvements" which would make it something different from the original.

    But then, when you're talking about an "original" that was four examples, hand made, and all different, it's hard to nail down just what *is* original. (Look at the 0818 debate).
     
  8. slm

    slm F1 Rookie
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    I would say that they are similar, certainly not identical. I have never had the opportunity to see a real P4 in the flesh to do a direct comparison. People could critique the car all day long and I would never imply that is anything but a rebody/recreation. It simply is what it is. And it is a lot of fun!
     
  9. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #9 Napolis, Mar 29, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2010
    Three Original P4's two of which were converted to 350 Can Am's which included chassis modifications among other things.

    Three Original P3's one of which was converted to a 412P then to a 330 Can Am and back to a 412P. Another to a 412P. The third to a P 3/4.

    Two original 412P's.

    P3 chassis are very different from P 4 chassis which are different from 350 Can Am chassis.

    All of them have unique aspects and all of them are VERY different from P4 replica's excepting David's 0900 which is close,
    more of an "authorised continuation" except being powered by a 350 Can Am engine.

    0818/0818 is/isn't a 330P which is a different animal.
     
  10. ApexOversteer

    ApexOversteer F1 Veteran

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    Apparently Ferrari has anointed Norwood's cars by allowing the badge to be put on the front, but they still cannot be called "Ferraris", they are "Norwood P4s".
     
  11. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #11 Napolis, Mar 29, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2010
    No way. Not true. Ferrari does not in any way sanction the use of their badge on Norwood replicas. If you try to import one of them into Italy it will be seized.
     
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  12. aosune

    aosune Rookie

    Mar 28, 2010
    3
    Thanks all for the information.

    I contacted Neil Foreman in the UK. He's out of business. The new guys that bought his business are "thinking" about continuing it. So that road is kind of a dead end. I've contacted RCR... although looking at their body... it looks different from all the other pictures I've seen. I also contacted Bailey Edward in South Africa... although Peter wasn't sure about the import regulations and legalities of importing the car to the US.

    Anyone want to sell their P4?

    Looking online at the bodies of the 412P and the P4s... I don't see a difference? Or is there a difference? I'm a newbie in the world of Ferraris... so please excuse my ignorance. Jim you said the P3 chassis is very different from the P4... however... how about the outer body? Is that different too?

    By the way - does anyone know where P4replica Paul is? I tried contacting him... no response so far.

    Thanks all.

    Amit
     
  13. teak360

    teak360 F1 Veteran
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    Seized and maybe more, right? Like turned into a nice cube in the crusher maybe.
     
  14. solofast

    solofast Formula 3

    Oct 8, 2007
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    #14 solofast, Apr 1, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2010
    There are differences in the bodies of the basic P3, 412P and the P4, as well as differences between individual cars of either series. Remember these were Prototypes. That means that really, no two were alike from the start, and as they raced them changes were made on the fly to each car for a variety of reasons. That goes from jacking open the front mouth of one car at the Targa Florio because it was hot that day, to smacking the guardrail as one real car did recently. If you compare the P3 and P4 bodies, the P4 had a different tail section with a smaller window and a different shape to the roof section before the rear window. The door cut lines on the P3 and P4 are different because the underlying chassis is different. The noses on P3's and P4's are very different. I'd have to dig out my photo collection, that is catagorized by chassis number, but really if you study the cars closely the differences become consderable and after a while you can get to the point where you look at a photo and say to yourself "oh yea that's 0858" just by glancing at it.

    These are just a few of the things that are obvious when you put a pic of one car up against another even more things jump out as being different. On individual cars, just among the P4's, there are subtle differences in the bodywork, since they were all hammered out by hand over a buck, and they were racing cars. Close was plenty good enough. Couple that with the fact that really only one P4 pretty much survived, and it has been hit more than a few times, means that there really isn't a "perfect" P4 to take dimensions from and make a something that is really close to the original. If you take a bunch of photos of each car you can pretty much play the cartoon game "count the differences" and end up with hundreds of small things that are different between the cars.

    There's a reason a lot of the replicas look "funny". The Noble cars had parts of their bodywork "splashed" from a fairly original P4, that's why the front fenders of their replica didn't match from side to side, the original didn't either! When they did the mid section and roofline, they decided that they needed more headroom (which they probably did), so they raised the roofline by an inch or so, but really it messed up the lines of the car, and that's why the Nobles, and the later RCR cars that were "splashed" from a Noble don't look "right".

    None of the replica chassis are anything close to a P4 chassis (save the Wilson car that is a meticulous recreation, but isn't for sale). The RCR car has an aluminum tub made from 3/8 inch plate. Robust, yes, but really it isn't anything close to a P4 frame. Maybe that's not a bad thing if you want a road car, but other than having some plastic body parts that look like P4 parts, it isn't really related to a P4. As Jim has said many times, these cars were very lightly built, and the drivers were very brave. If you took a hit from an housewife doing distracted driving in her SUV you would be dead in an instant.

    The Norwood cars are built from aluminum, but there are aspects of them that, in my opinion, make them look more like a characture of a P4 than the real thing.

    While you can buy an SPF GT-40 that is pretty representative of the real thing, there isn’t now, and there isn’t likely to be in the future a very faithful replica of a P4.
     
  15. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Two Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Ah the fun is the most important bit:D.

    I've looked a little on the internet and to me they look good. As you said, not identical but still the basic stunning shape!
     
  16. 4ZA ITALIA

    4ZA ITALIA Karting

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    Step up to the real thing! RM is offering # 0858 via private treaty sale. Check out the Monaco auction catalog for details.
     
  17. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    0858's not a P4.

    0858's a 350 Can Am and Ferrari has clearly stated that if a P 4 body is put on 0858 it would only be only be eligible for certification as "A Ferrari of Historical Interest" not as an original P4.

    A 350 Can Am can not be turned back into a P 4 by simply mounting a P 4 body to it.

    The engine is different and the chassis is modified among other things.
     
  18. 4ZA ITALIA

    4ZA ITALIA Karting

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    I should have used the sarcastic font (and I am not being sarcastic now). I assumed posting a Can Am in a replica thread and calling it the real thing would be much more obvious fun poking than it is.

    The RM Monaco digital auction catalog is available online and it is worth checking out. Now I am dangerously close to hijacking this thread, so I will stop typing.
     
  19. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Hey RM is calling it a 330 P4/350 Can Am.

    Funny World.
     
  20. 4ZA ITALIA

    4ZA ITALIA Karting

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    Brad Lee
  21. fmaniac

    fmaniac Karting

    Jun 20, 2008
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    #21 fmaniac, Jul 17, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2010
    I normally despise replicas, particularly fiberglass ferraris or lambos that sound like a fiero or a toyota. But the norwood to me is a different story. If I had the money and knew I could fit in one I could definitly see myself with one. I think the differences between the norwood and a real p4 are much more subtle than you aledge. IMO the norwood really captures the spirit of the construction, look, sound and I expect driving experence of a real p4, plus I bet they are a blast to drive. The idea of driving a sub 2000lb car with a 400hp ferrari v12 right behind my head just gets me right there. That said I don't think the norwood should have a Ferrari badge. If I were to get one I would look into replacing the porsche box with a manual box from a 360.
     
  22. BAE

    BAE Rookie

    Oct 16, 2004
    2
    Amit you have a PM.
     
  23. fatarnie

    fatarnie Karting

    Jan 2, 2008
    59
    UK
    A close eye over that Norwood reveals wrong rear lights, wrong windscreen and its a left hooker.

    There are a couple of good Nobles and Foremans being (re)built right now both with Ferrari engines, a Nopble P4 using a 456 engine and a 412P (0854) replica using F355 engine and transaxle.

    Max Wakefield also has a very nice 600bhp Ferrrari V12 powered Scuderia Filipinetti 412P replica.

    Replicas have to be really good with interchangeable parts (like Adrian Newey's GT40 which was allegedly rebuilt using quite a few Superformance parts) - and nobody has managed that with a P4 with the possible exception of David Piper.

    What gets these cars bad form are those powered by Renault V6's and Chevy V8s. Wrong sound, and either way off the required power level or so heavy on the rear the car has understeer which simply cannot be dialed out.

    They will never be a patch on the real thing, but if taking a good replica around Spa gives half the aura of what it might have been like 44 years ago, thats fine with me.
     
  24. BBL

    BBL Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2006
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    I have never seen a replica of a 330 P3 or P4, but I saw a real one a while back at Concorso Italiano when it was still being held at Quail Lodge. I was told the car had been brought over from Japan. It definitely has a "presence"!
     
  25. James garrity

    James garrity Rookie

    May 31, 2019
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    James A Garrity
    Hello every one,I’m new to Ferrari Chat. My question lies in a P4 replica,but looking for something above average,and I know it would be prices acordingly.Ihave sent numerous inquiries to RM Wilson Engineering in the UK inquiring about the near perfect P 4 replica they made,mainly in the engine with what is described as a bespoke fule injection system like what you might find on an original. But,no response.My next choice would be Norwood,but again,I’m also thinking on the engine. Can any one fill me in on this,best way to go,what’s going on with RM Wilson? Thank you all
     

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