Ferrari performance still sets the standard even on old models

US version 308. YUK!!!!!!!! May as well put a boat anchor in the Euro car and a towel in the exhaust system (added bumper weights, lower engine compression and cats in the US version).

 

Brian,
I agree this is a repeating pattern. Is it too much to ask that Ferrari build the very best performing car in its respective class. We know they can do it as witnessed by the Enzo. I believe it should be an objective. It bothers me that the GT3, GT40, Z06 and up coming C6 are direct competitors in the performance category. None of these cars are shabby in the quality category either. If they would do to the performance car arena what they have done to the Formula 1 arena then..............

 

The 308 got killed and heavily criticized by the mags in testing in the early through mid 80s. I remember reading them, and still have the mags.

The 911 SC would absolutely eat a 2 valve injected 308 alive. By modern standards, a 2 valve injected 308 is a dog. The writers ragged on the 2V 308 mercilessly because of its slowness.

Let's not even talk about the 2 valve Mondial! You'd have to search long and hard to find a modern, car, truck or minivan slower than a 2 valve Mondial (0-60 in the 9s).

Even by the mid-80s, the 911 Carrera and the 928 were much faster cars than even the 4 valve 308. The mags would routinely get the 911 and the 928 to 60 in the very low 6s, even breaking into the 5s for the 911. The US 308QV just wasn't in that class.

 

It's not about the numbers all the time.
If it was we'd all be driving Spoon Civics or Mitsu Evo's (not they are bad, still very exclusive!)

 

Hey Guys:

Forget 0 - 60 or 1/4 mile times. You could go back to the late '40's and find Ford flatheads (full race of course, in a stripped down '32) which would turn similar or better drag times than some of the figures listed.
IT IS TOTALLY NEANINGLESS AS A MEASURE OF COMPARATIVE PERFORMANCE!

Cheers
Warren

 

I couldn't disagree more. It is an important part of performance. Not the only measure, but nevertheless an important piece of the pie.

 

Some of you guys see everything through rossa corsa glasses. I have owned 6 Fcars ranging from a 77 308 to a 94 348 TB challenge (currently an 89 328 GTB) I drove them a lot and I thrashed them on racetracks. When each car was made, they were among the top 5 or 10 production cars made in every performance category. However, the last 15 years automotive technology has brought huge advances and those older Fcars are not in the same league with hardly anything built today, including handling. Check R&T's slalom and skippad tests for these old cars. 3X8's had slalom speeds in the 60-63 mph range. Today's better tires would help a little but anyone really familiar with these cars knows there is plenty of body roll and potential to swap ends. At the time, these numbers were about as good as it got. I have tracked 3X8's in "mixed " events with late model cars from other marques. It was not pretty for the most part.

Do not confuse paper performance with driving fun. I love to drive the 328 on twisty mountain roads because of how it feels, the response, grace and balance. Even on tracks, it is fun to drive, more fun than a 99 M3 I had even though the M3 can hang with 355's. Currently, I am driving A Subaru STI which I will track for the first time next weekend. It has enormous performance and (unlikethe bimmer) is a lot of fun. I'll see how it stacks up with the other cars. There should be a 360 or 2 there.

Dave

 

Dave, you brought a tear of joy in my eye.

Enjoy THE RIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

David,
I have to agree with you...I wouldn't dare mess with any of the cars mentioned with my 328...heck they would give a stock 348 a run for it's money...
Dave

 

[Currently, I am driving A Subaru STI which I will track for the first time next weekend. It has enormous performance and (unlikethe bimmer) is a lot of fun.

Dave[/QUOTE]

Now I've heard it all.

 

Doesn't matter how fast ANY tuner car is, they're still NOT Ferraris.

 

BCMarly,
Since paper performance is important to you, check out the numbers on the STI. 0-60 and 1/4 mile times are identical to 355's per R&T. Braking distances are shorter, especially 80-0 and slalom speeds are significantly faster. After you have done your reading, wander down to your Subie dealer and ask for a test drive. When you get back, we'll talk.

There are a lot of good reasons to own a Ferrari, but bang for the buck isn't one of them. To get cutting edge performance, you have to own a current model within a couple of years of it's intro.

Dave

 

Sometimes i wonder... do pure numbers REALLY tell the story? How do you measure love... passion... sheer joy... a great meal.... or that "perfect" romantic evening? Are these things even measurable... or deserve to be held to such limiting analysis in the first place?

Enjoy the numbers... i'll enjoy THE DRIVE...

 

FYI, a stock 308 WILL NOT do 0-60mph in 5.9 seconds unless it is falling off a cliff.

 

For what it is worth, I have messed around a number of times with a friend who has an S2000 Honda, and it is a nice car. Neither off the line or froma running start has he ever been able to get ahead of my very well sorted, but entirely stock '86 328. It seems that there is no substitute fro torque. The 328 simply out-muscles the Honda, especially since the Honda's revs have to be kept up so high to get the most out of it.

I really agree with those who said it is not about performance all the time. Drive what you love and enjoy. I am almost too old to have drag races from red lights! If you never want to lose a race, change cars often, and learn how to drive your car a well as possible.

 

I've beaten many 996's with my 328 on twisty roads where handling is important. It's not easy and some of the drivers use to track their cars. My 328 is equipped with Öhlins shocks and have a quite nice suspension set up though, but thats about all.

Ciao
Peter

 

I quote, "It has enormous performance and (unlike the bimmer) is a lot of fun." I'm glad your sti is more fun to drive than a E36M3. Heck, I bet it's more fun to drive than any other high performance car.
The context of my sitting "paper" numbers was to give some perspective to the comments referencing the 308 4V. Had you read my post more carefully you would have observed this. Next time, read the post before you respond. If you are having trouble connecting the dots report back and I will provide you with a crayon. And thanks for posting the sti's "paper" numbers. It's something you were obviously itching to report to the group. Enjoy your sti. I'm contemplating getting one for my son.

 

All cars fall off the cliff the same speed

 

VRAA,

Not necessarily, aerodynamics can really come into play here. Ferrari's should fall off cliffs faster than any other car.

Art S.

 

308 doesn't have a chance against an out of the box WRX (performance, not looks);
328 is similar to WRX in 0-60, 0-100, skidpad and slalom;
Old V-12's like the 330 GT 2+2, 365 GT 2+2, 400 2+2 & 365GTC are slightly faster to 100 and certainly beyond, but fall down in the slalom when compared with the WRX (acceleration-wise the WRX is a dog above 70mph);
All in all, it took the stock japanese cars, 2-4 decades to match the performance of many of the old Ferraris (e.g. RX-7, Supra, WRX etc.).

It took a much shorter period (one year for the STI's release) for Subaru to close the gap with the Boxer & Daytona. The latter Ferraris will eat the WRX to 100 and are comparable to the STI to 100, but not as fast in the slalom.
I guess the two questions are:
1. How long will it take for the stock ricer cars to close the performance gap on the 360, 575 or their progeny?
2. Can Ferrari stay ahead of newly developed stock ricers in the performance race over time?

 

[pedantic] Actually, the acceleration is the same, drag limits terminal velocity.[/pedantic]

 

Just my .02 P...

WHO GIVES A DAMN ABOUT ABSOLUTE PERFORMANCES!!! Porshes 928, old american sport cars, japanees... lost in the fog of memory. You see them today and they are DATED. Humbly, I have driven and owned some of them, but they are just vague memories.
The 3x8... Even by today's standards they are stunning looking cars, take your breath away. Driving them is a joy, give me a twisty road in a spring afternoon and I am the happyest person in the world.
Yes, a Subaru will overtake me, the driver will have to prove driving like mad that he can beat a Ferrari. I DO NOT NEED TO PROVE ANYTHING.
.... and then what? In 20 years that car will be no more, my 328 will still be a piece of mechanical art.
Whatever you thnk, exploiting the full potential of a 300 hp car on open road is madness. So let us measure cars with wider parameters tht just 0-60, G-force, max speed etc. In this league yes, Classic Ferraris still set the standard

Ciao

Eugenio

 

Amen